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Do you believe in self-control, agency, accountability, personal responsibility, that kind of thing? Because much of what you mentioned isn't forced on anyone,

Do you believe in self-control, agency, accountability, personal responsibility, that kind of thing? Because much of what you mentioned isn't forced on anyone, and your comment overall is oddly despairing to me. > Then once they become adults we slam them with financial pressures and advertisements. What pressures? Buy food and pay your bills? If you're poor that's difficult, but if you're not poor then you don't need to do much nowadays. Pay your rent, utilities, phone, and internet online and you're mostly done. This is only difficult if you're financially illiterate or lack the self control to not make bad financial decisions. Both of these can be improved with studying and practice, though poverty is much more difficult to address > We give them jobs where if they make a mistake they will end up out on their ear and destitute. Again, unless you're already in a difficult place in life, you shouldn't be ending up homeless just because you lost a job. I lived frugally after graduating college and saved money towards an emergency fund rather than getting a flashy new car, a swanky apartment on my own, traveling lavishly. This falls into the same issue of being bad with finances (fixable) or poverty (can be fixable but much more difficult) > We then give them credit so they can feel anxious about not having enough to pay the credit card bill. Who's forcing you to get a credit card? I didn't have one until I was in my late 20s, and even now I only use it as a replacement for my debit card, not to buy stuff I don't have the money for. As a result I've never had an issue with payments or anxiety > Then when they eat the crud from the advertisements to feel better they get fat and anxious about that too! Even if you can't afford netflix or something like that without advertisements, you can always download an adblocker on your phone or laptop. Don't stare at the advertisements on your commute to work. Put some time to craft a food lifestyle and not be so suggestible to advertisement. I opened with questions about accountability and agency because there's a lot we can't control in our world, but almost all of the points you made can be completely controlled by a person, and they all have totally feasible solutions. Unless you're poor, self control and financial literacy pretty much take care of almost everything you mentioned

foxyv 6y ago
> Unless you're poor, self control and financial literacy pretty much take care of almost everything you mentioned. You are correct! However, personal responsibility and accountability are a distraction from the real problem, which is a culture of profound ignorance. If someone has zero instruction in financial literacy and no training in self-control then is it a surprise that they don't practice either? Trying to apply personal responsibility and accountability to a person who is completely ignorant for cultural and educational reasons is absurd. If a person doesn't even know what a budget IS then is it a surprise they max out their credit card? If a person is taught only compliance throughout school and their childhood then is it a surprise they have no sense of self-control? Most of the people I know are in a sort of endless anxiety cycle about their finances with no understanding of why their finances are such a mess. Applying responsibility and self-control to someone who is ignorant of even the most basic aspects of being an adult is ridiculous. This is like yelling at a puppy who pees on the rug who doesn't even know that they can go in the backyard instead. They just learn to resent you and the system who holds them accountable for something they don't understand. At best they just learn to comply with everything people in authority tell them to do and hope for the best, accepting that every so often they will get yelled at for an unknowable violation.
- silicon2401 6y ago
  > Applying responsibility and self-control to someone who is ignorant of even the most basic aspects of being an adult is ridiculous. I consider this sentiment the problem. It's not ridiculous to expect adults to do some basic research, especially now that information is almost overwhelmingly available. Treating adults like helpless children or zoo animals with no power or autonomy is part of what created this societal state, in my opinion. And that's coming from someone who grew up poor, with a single parent, and no connections/mentors/role models/etc growing up, in case somebody wants to counter by saying that it was easy for me because I had xyz privilege. I just think before I act, put in the work to get informed about important things, and try to practice self-control and delayed gratification

foxyv 6y ago

> Unless you're poor, self control and financial literacy pretty much take care of almost everything you mentioned. You are correct! However, personal responsibility and accountability are a distraction from the real problem, which is a culture of profound ignorance. If someone has zero instruction in financial literacy and no training in self-control then is it a surprise that they don't practice either? Trying to apply personal responsibility and accountability to a person who is completely ignorant for cultural and educational reasons is absurd. If a person doesn't even know what a budget IS then is it a surprise they max out their credit card? If a person is taught only compliance throughout school and their childhood then is it a surprise they have no sense of self-control? Most of the people I know are in a sort of endless anxiety cycle about their finances with no understanding of why their finances are such a mess. Applying responsibility and self-control to someone who is ignorant of even the most basic aspects of being an adult is ridiculous. This is like yelling at a puppy who pees on the rug who doesn't even know that they can go in the backyard instead. They just learn to resent you and the system who holds them accountable for something they don't understand. At best they just learn to comply with everything people in authority tell them to do and hope for the best, accepting that every so often they will get yelled at for an unknowable violation.

silicon2401 6y ago
> Applying responsibility and self-control to someone who is ignorant of even the most basic aspects of being an adult is ridiculous. I consider this sentiment the problem. It's not ridiculous to expect adults to do some basic research, especially now that information is almost overwhelmingly available. Treating adults like helpless children or zoo animals with no power or autonomy is part of what created this societal state, in my opinion. And that's coming from someone who grew up poor, with a single parent, and no connections/mentors/role models/etc growing up, in case somebody wants to counter by saying that it was easy for me because I had xyz privilege. I just think before I act, put in the work to get informed about important things, and try to practice self-control and delayed gratification