4 ms·

This already happens with existing compression algorithms. Certain vowel sounds get collapsed, so someone will say, for example, "66" and it will come out on th

by dqv 6y ago

This already happens with existing compression algorithms. Certain vowel sounds get collapsed, so someone will say, for example, "66" and it will come out on the other side as "6". Very annoying because you can't exactly coach a layperson on how to talk "the right way" to not trigger this vowel collapse.

chrisshroba 6y ago
I'm having a little trouble following this, could you explain a bit more? It seems to me like "66" would be pronounced "SIKSIKS", so for that to become "SIKS" would mean the "KS" (consonants) would be collapsed, no? (Not trying to refute you or anything, just understand :) )
- howinteresting 6y ago
  Probably turn into something like SIIIIKS.
  - dqv 6y ago
    Exactly, but sometimes it's so subtle you can't even tell it's the compression taking over.
- gopalv 6y ago
  As someone with a weird sibilant that doesn't seem to compress well, I want to say that it goes across as "sɪkɪks" and I got used to saying "double six" on the phone. So I would say "seven nine double six", which is another problem if I'm talking to an American. This applies to GSM digitization and other "regular phone" compression, the newer computer calls have been better at taking the words.
bobthechef 6y ago
> you can't exactly coach a layperson on how to talk "the right way" to not trigger this vowel collapse I've never noticed. At any rate, we should not coach people to adapt to technology in this way. It is Procrustean and anti-human and unnecessarily places a burden on people that belongs to the software and the developer.
- nyanpasu64 6y ago
  For what it's worth, amateur radio operators already have specialized rules and techniques for speech, to improve clarity over a muffled noisy analog radio channel.
  - YarickR2 6y ago
    Going as far as using trinary for on the fly data encoding .
- rpdillon 6y ago
  I've always suspected the optimal experience is a balance...we define some intermediate language that both the computers need to be programmed to understand and humans need to be trained to adopt. The most obvious example is learning to type...I've had by far the most fun working with computers in a keyboard-centric environment, mostly because I'm good enough at pressing keys and the computer is good enough at understanding them. That said, I agree with both you and GP: trying to train a layperson to talk differently based on the quirks of the codec used to encode their voice seems like a poor choice!
tyingq 6y ago
> how to talk "the right way" Not suggesting it as a fix, but this did remind me of the military phonetic alphabet, which includes numbers too. 3 is "tree", 4 is "fow er", 5 is "fife", 9 is "niner". The rest of the numbers are mostly as-is, but you'll hear very deliberate enunciation, like "Zee Row" for 0.
- WaitWaitWha 6y ago
  whiskey hotel yankee delta oscar india hotel alpha victor echo tango oscar sierra papa echo alpha kilo tango hotel echo lima alpha november golf uniform alpha golf echo oscar foxtrot tango hotel echo mike alpha charlie hotel india november echo ? tango hotel alpha tango india sierra india november sierra alpha november echo!
  - toast0 6y ago
    Humans adapt a whole hell of a lot easier than machines. Sure, it would be nice to have clean high bandwidth, low latency voice channels to everywhere so you could drop pins and expect the other side to hear it. Unfortunately, high bandwidth never really happened, and some places never ran land lines to everyone's home, and nobody wants to pay the high price of circuit switched voice when packet switched voice mostly works good enough and is enormously cheaper.
    - posguy 6y ago
      But is Lyra a significant improvement over modern Opus at 8Kbps? You can buy a Grandstream HT802 for ~$30 and its DSP can decode Opus today, whereas Lyra will require orders of magnitude more power to decode while providing much worse reproduction accuracy.
  - tyingq 6y ago
    | perl -pe 's/(\w)\w+/\1/g'
jbluepolarbear 6y ago
I don’t know if it’s improved over the last 6 months, but Zoom sucks for Native Spanish speakers speaking English. Like zoom would not pick up the J/H sound at all on English words.

by dqv 6y ago

chrisshroba 6y ago

I'm having a little trouble following this, could you explain a bit more? It seems to me like "66" would be pronounced "SIKSIKS", so for that to become "SIKS" would mean the "KS" (consonants) would be collapsed, no? (Not trying to refute you or anything, just understand :) )

howinteresting 6y ago
Probably turn into something like SIIIIKS.
- dqv 6y ago
  Exactly, but sometimes it's so subtle you can't even tell it's the compression taking over.
gopalv 6y ago
As someone with a weird sibilant that doesn't seem to compress well, I want to say that it goes across as "sɪkɪks" and I got used to saying "double six" on the phone. So I would say "seven nine double six", which is another problem if I'm talking to an American. This applies to GSM digitization and other "regular phone" compression, the newer computer calls have been better at taking the words.

bobthechef 6y ago

> you can't exactly coach a layperson on how to talk "the right way" to not trigger this vowel collapse I've never noticed. At any rate, we should not coach people to adapt to technology in this way. It is Procrustean and anti-human and unnecessarily places a burden on people that belongs to the software and the developer.

nyanpasu64 6y ago
For what it's worth, amateur radio operators already have specialized rules and techniques for speech, to improve clarity over a muffled noisy analog radio channel.
- YarickR2 6y ago
  Going as far as using trinary for on the fly data encoding .
rpdillon 6y ago
I've always suspected the optimal experience is a balance...we define some intermediate language that both the computers need to be programmed to understand and humans need to be trained to adopt. The most obvious example is learning to type...I've had by far the most fun working with computers in a keyboard-centric environment, mostly because I'm good enough at pressing keys and the computer is good enough at understanding them. That said, I agree with both you and GP: trying to train a layperson to talk differently based on the quirks of the codec used to encode their voice seems like a poor choice!

tyingq 6y ago

> how to talk "the right way" Not suggesting it as a fix, but this did remind me of the military phonetic alphabet, which includes numbers too. 3 is "tree", 4 is "fow er", 5 is "fife", 9 is "niner". The rest of the numbers are mostly as-is, but you'll hear very deliberate enunciation, like "Zee Row" for 0.

WaitWaitWha 6y ago
whiskey hotel yankee delta oscar india hotel alpha victor echo tango oscar sierra papa echo alpha kilo tango hotel echo lima alpha november golf uniform alpha golf echo oscar foxtrot tango hotel echo mike alpha charlie hotel india november echo ? tango hotel alpha tango india sierra india november sierra alpha november echo!
- toast0 6y ago
  Humans adapt a whole hell of a lot easier than machines. Sure, it would be nice to have clean high bandwidth, low latency voice channels to everywhere so you could drop pins and expect the other side to hear it. Unfortunately, high bandwidth never really happened, and some places never ran land lines to everyone's home, and nobody wants to pay the high price of circuit switched voice when packet switched voice mostly works good enough and is enormously cheaper.
  - posguy 6y ago
    But is Lyra a significant improvement over modern Opus at 8Kbps? You can buy a Grandstream HT802 for ~$30 and its DSP can decode Opus today, whereas Lyra will require orders of magnitude more power to decode while providing much worse reproduction accuracy.
- tyingq 6y ago
  | perl -pe 's/(\w)\w+/\1/g'

jbluepolarbear 6y ago

I don’t know if it’s improved over the last 6 months, but Zoom sucks for Native Spanish speakers speaking English. Like zoom would not pick up the J/H sound at all on English words.