5 ms·

If a year into this thing, you can’t manage to get headphones for the whole team, I have no idea how you manage to release software.

closeparen 6y ago
It’s not really in the company’s DNA to be so paternalistic as “you must use wired headphones when connecting to a company Zoom meeting” although perhaps it would help. I’m sure everyone has headphones, but a lot of people choose not to use them or choose to use Bluetooth headphones that are great for music but wreck conversation. Only a few audio nerds have an inkling that this matters, let alone the boldness and clout to change others’ behavior.
- nilkn 6y ago
  I'm sorry, but your employer is incompetent if they are not working with their remote staff to make sure their equipment is functional and high quality. That doesn't mean they must decree that everyone use wired headphones. It means that they need to proactively make sure each staff member has a solution that actually works. I'm a manager and throughout COVID, whenever I noticed a team member with equipment issues I've worked with them to get it sorted out in a way that pleases them and helps everyone else communicate with them. Being able to communicate is part of the job. If you can't do it for social or technical reasons, I'm going to work with you until you can.
  - nitrogen 6y ago
    Using push-to-talk goes a really long way, too. Everyone should be muted by default and unmute when they need to interject or respond.
- robjan 6y ago
  We bought our whole team Plantronics Voyager Focus UC headsets. They cost around $250 each but are well worth the background noise cancellation and have excellent sound quality.
  - closeparen 6y ago
    I looked around and couldn’t find the latency for these in the manufacturer’s spec sheet. Do you know what it is? Bluetooth does not bode well - usually hundreds of milliseconds, which is enough to interfere with conversation turn-taking.
    - heymijo 6y ago
      closeparen, you're majoring in the minors. I watch a group of twenty kindergarten students (5 and 6 year olds) every day who have figured out how to have effective remote meetings (turn taking, mute by default, etc) and most don't use headphones. Bring up the issue with your team. Pick some norms to try, and iterate until it works. You got this.
      - closeparen 6y ago
        That’s the argument. You need something very much like elementary school classroom management norms to make remote meetings sustainable with current technology. These norms are great for lectures but a serious drag on the kind of interactive, spontaneous conversation that is possible in person (or theoretically on higher quality, lower latency links). Remote work partisans are reduced to arguing that this kind of conversation isn’t important to the work we do. Which is certainly possible! But does not match my intuition. Or my CEO’s intuition. Which is why we’re going back to the office. Maybe a remote competitor will beat us anyway. Time will tell. I suspect that the remote dream is correct but early, and better telepresence technology will get us there eventually.
        askafriend 6y ago
        From your responses, it doesn't seem like your company is putting forth even the bare minimum effort to make it work. I say this is a failure of management more than anything else. Tough pill to swallow if you have company pride, but a lot of people have figured this out many months ago. Doesn't mean it's perfect or a replacement for in-person meetings, but many teams are far ahead of what you guys seem to be doing (which is essentially nothing?).
- RIMR 6y ago
  If audio quality is so critically important for communication, then yeah, maybe send your employees headsets and make it a requirement. It shouldn't be a matter of audiophiles trying to convince their co-workers to change their habits. It's a management problem if hardware problems are preventing effective communication.
- watwut 6y ago
  Bluetooth headphones are perfectly fine for home work situation. Oir team members have them and there is no issue. Any headphones work, even crappy. Muting microphone works. Technical side of these meetings is really not difficult.
- NotSammyHagar 6y ago
  But if something is a disaster, like you describe, then they need to figure out a basic effective strategy for making it not be a disaster. Like headphones or turn off your mic if not expecting to talk. It's not exactly Rocket Science.
deckard1 6y ago
eh. I've been doing remote work for nearly 8 years now. It's always painful. The problem isn't fancy headphones. That's just flippant. It's that mute/unmute and everything has latency. You can't just chime in like in person. It's awkward. "Sorry, what did you say James?" "Oh, I was just going to say..." Talking over each other is much more painful virtually than in person. Jokes land flat. No one laughs because they are on mute. Or possibly didn't hear it due to packet loss or other network/audio issues. I like remote work and can't imagine going back to an office, but I don't go around pretending there aren't serious downsides.
- rightbyte 6y ago
  It is funny becouse I agree with your points but I don't recall having those problems when gaming with friends over self hosted Ventrilo. Is it a modern SaaS issue?

closeparen 6y ago

It’s not really in the company’s DNA to be so paternalistic as “you must use wired headphones when connecting to a company Zoom meeting” although perhaps it would help. I’m sure everyone has headphones, but a lot of people choose not to use them or choose to use Bluetooth headphones that are great for music but wreck conversation. Only a few audio nerds have an inkling that this matters, let alone the boldness and clout to change others’ behavior.

nilkn 6y ago
I'm sorry, but your employer is incompetent if they are not working with their remote staff to make sure their equipment is functional and high quality. That doesn't mean they must decree that everyone use wired headphones. It means that they need to proactively make sure each staff member has a solution that actually works. I'm a manager and throughout COVID, whenever I noticed a team member with equipment issues I've worked with them to get it sorted out in a way that pleases them and helps everyone else communicate with them. Being able to communicate is part of the job. If you can't do it for social or technical reasons, I'm going to work with you until you can.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  Using push-to-talk goes a really long way, too. Everyone should be muted by default and unmute when they need to interject or respond.
robjan 6y ago
We bought our whole team Plantronics Voyager Focus UC headsets. They cost around $250 each but are well worth the background noise cancellation and have excellent sound quality.
- closeparen 6y ago
  I looked around and couldn’t find the latency for these in the manufacturer’s spec sheet. Do you know what it is? Bluetooth does not bode well - usually hundreds of milliseconds, which is enough to interfere with conversation turn-taking.
  - heymijo 6y ago
    closeparen, you're majoring in the minors. I watch a group of twenty kindergarten students (5 and 6 year olds) every day who have figured out how to have effective remote meetings (turn taking, mute by default, etc) and most don't use headphones. Bring up the issue with your team. Pick some norms to try, and iterate until it works. You got this.
    - closeparen 6y ago
      That’s the argument. You need something very much like elementary school classroom management norms to make remote meetings sustainable with current technology. These norms are great for lectures but a serious drag on the kind of interactive, spontaneous conversation that is possible in person (or theoretically on higher quality, lower latency links). Remote work partisans are reduced to arguing that this kind of conversation isn’t important to the work we do. Which is certainly possible! But does not match my intuition. Or my CEO’s intuition. Which is why we’re going back to the office. Maybe a remote competitor will beat us anyway. Time will tell. I suspect that the remote dream is correct but early, and better telepresence technology will get us there eventually.
      - askafriend 6y ago
        From your responses, it doesn't seem like your company is putting forth even the bare minimum effort to make it work. I say this is a failure of management more than anything else. Tough pill to swallow if you have company pride, but a lot of people have figured this out many months ago. Doesn't mean it's perfect or a replacement for in-person meetings, but many teams are far ahead of what you guys seem to be doing (which is essentially nothing?).
RIMR 6y ago
If audio quality is so critically important for communication, then yeah, maybe send your employees headsets and make it a requirement. It shouldn't be a matter of audiophiles trying to convince their co-workers to change their habits. It's a management problem if hardware problems are preventing effective communication.
watwut 6y ago
Bluetooth headphones are perfectly fine for home work situation. Oir team members have them and there is no issue. Any headphones work, even crappy. Muting microphone works. Technical side of these meetings is really not difficult.
NotSammyHagar 6y ago
But if something is a disaster, like you describe, then they need to figure out a basic effective strategy for making it not be a disaster. Like headphones or turn off your mic if not expecting to talk. It's not exactly Rocket Science.

deckard1 6y ago

eh. I've been doing remote work for nearly 8 years now. It's always painful. The problem isn't fancy headphones. That's just flippant. It's that mute/unmute and everything has latency. You can't just chime in like in person. It's awkward. "Sorry, what did you say James?" "Oh, I was just going to say..." Talking over each other is much more painful virtually than in person. Jokes land flat. No one laughs because they are on mute. Or possibly didn't hear it due to packet loss or other network/audio issues. I like remote work and can't imagine going back to an office, but I don't go around pretending there aren't serious downsides.

rightbyte 6y ago
It is funny becouse I agree with your points but I don't recall having those problems when gaming with friends over self hosted Ventrilo. Is it a modern SaaS issue?