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The roller coaster saga of AstraZeneca is a prime example of why I think it is fair for some people to not want to get vaccines or at least to be suspicious of

The roller coaster saga of AstraZeneca is a prime example of why I think it is fair for some people to not want to get vaccines or at least to be suspicious of the accelerated EUA process. The choice to get vaccinated or not should be retained by individuals, respecting bodily autonomy, rather than forced by states via vaccine passports or other such policies that resemble China's social credit scores.

cactus2093 6y ago
Vaccine passports don't force you to take the vaccine, you are free to not get vaccinated and just not go to private crowded venues like disneyland or whatever. Also, what about the bodily autonomy of people that don't want to be in close proximity someone who might have covid? (after all, vaccines are only 65-95% effective, perhaps a little less when it comes to new variants). This is just inevitably one of those cases where an individual's own freedom can actively inhibit other people's freedom, there's no perfect solution.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  We've also had similar travel requirements for other diseases for decades without issue. Want to hop on an international flight in the late 1940s? Better have your smallpox vaccine recorded! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_requirements_for_international_travel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_requirements_for_i...
- throwawayboise 6y ago
  > what about the bodily autonomy of people that don't want to be in close proximity someone who might have covid They can choose to isolate themselves. The big wide world is full of risks, and COVID is but one. If you choose to get vaccinated, you have little to worry about. You're not going to get sick, even if exposed. If I choose to not get vaccinated, I theoretically endanger myself and that's my choice.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    > If you choose to get vaccinated, you have little to worry about. I might need the ICU that's filled to the brim with anti-vaxxers. (There are also folks who can't get vaccinated who rely on the responsibility of others.)
_Microft 6y ago
> The choice to get vaccinated or not should be retained by individuals, respecting bodily autonomy, > rather than forced by states via vaccine passports People should definitely have the choice whether to be vaccinated or not. This does not mean that they do not have to bear the consequences of that decision. This might well mean that they cannot travel as easily as before or might not even visit restaurants because of the threat that they still pose to others. I understand that they might not like that but this feels like a case of "wanting to have the cake and eating it".
- throwawayboise 6y ago
  If unvaccinated people pose a threat to the vaccinated, what exactly is the benefit of the vaccine then?
  - _Microft 6y ago
    > If unvaccinated people pose a threat to the vaccinated, what exactly is the benefit of the vaccine then? Unvaccinated pose a threat to other unvaccinated people. There are people who just cannot be vaccinated whether they want to be or not.
    - throwawaysea 6y ago
      So why can't those people just isolate themselves or where PPE everywhere if they are risk averse? Why force others to inject something foreign rushed through authorization into their body?

cactus2093 6y ago

Vaccine passports don't force you to take the vaccine, you are free to not get vaccinated and just not go to private crowded venues like disneyland or whatever. Also, what about the bodily autonomy of people that don't want to be in close proximity someone who might have covid? (after all, vaccines are only 65-95% effective, perhaps a little less when it comes to new variants). This is just inevitably one of those cases where an individual's own freedom can actively inhibit other people's freedom, there's no perfect solution.

ceejayoz 6y ago
We've also had similar travel requirements for other diseases for decades without issue. Want to hop on an international flight in the late 1940s? Better have your smallpox vaccine recorded! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_requirements_for_international_travel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_requirements_for_i...
throwawayboise 6y ago
> what about the bodily autonomy of people that don't want to be in close proximity someone who might have covid They can choose to isolate themselves. The big wide world is full of risks, and COVID is but one. If you choose to get vaccinated, you have little to worry about. You're not going to get sick, even if exposed. If I choose to not get vaccinated, I theoretically endanger myself and that's my choice.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  > If you choose to get vaccinated, you have little to worry about. I might need the ICU that's filled to the brim with anti-vaxxers. (There are also folks who can't get vaccinated who rely on the responsibility of others.)

_Microft 6y ago

> The choice to get vaccinated or not should be retained by individuals, respecting bodily autonomy, > rather than forced by states via vaccine passports People should definitely have the choice whether to be vaccinated or not. This does not mean that they do not have to bear the consequences of that decision. This might well mean that they cannot travel as easily as before or might not even visit restaurants because of the threat that they still pose to others. I understand that they might not like that but this feels like a case of "wanting to have the cake and eating it".

throwawayboise 6y ago
If unvaccinated people pose a threat to the vaccinated, what exactly is the benefit of the vaccine then?
- _Microft 6y ago
  > If unvaccinated people pose a threat to the vaccinated, what exactly is the benefit of the vaccine then? Unvaccinated pose a threat to other unvaccinated people. There are people who just cannot be vaccinated whether they want to be or not.
  - throwawaysea 6y ago
    So why can't those people just isolate themselves or where PPE everywhere if they are risk averse? Why force others to inject something foreign rushed through authorization into their body?