8 ms·

Microsoft Edge market share grew 13x in the past 12 months, overtaking Firefox

drewg123 6y ago
I'm sure if Firefox was rammed down people's throats the way Microsoft promoted Edge on W10 updates, then it would have a much higher ranking.
- tored 6y ago
  True, but the brand of Firefox has definitely died off. I remember the old days when even tech illiterate people knew about Firefox and wanted it installed on their computer.
mc32 6y ago
Obviously this is on the desktop. If you want a presence on the desktop, you have to own the OS like Windows, macOS and Chrome, unless regulators force a choice.
- cpmsmith 6y ago
  As opposed to what? Mobile is worse, with iOS not allowing a choice at all.
  - gh-throw 6y ago
    You can change browsers, just not browser engines. This might bother me if any other browser engines seemed to give a damn about battery life, but since they don't, it's justifiable for the reason of preventing people from "mysteriously" having terrible battery life because ads on Google properties convinced them to install Chrome, at least.
    - mhh__ 6y ago
      > This might bother me if any other browser engines seemed to give a damn about battery life How do you know? How can you have measured it if Apple are having an ego trip and not letting them try?
      - gh-throw 6y ago
        The rest all demonstrably eat battery like it's free on every other platform? IDK, maybe Edge doesn't, but FF and Chrome sure do. [EDIT] Let me put it this way: I see no reason to expect the FF or Chrome engines to perform better on iOS than they do on Android, especially since that's the closest to a "home" platform that Chrome has (ChromeOS aside).
  - boublepop 6y ago
    What makes you say IOS does not allow a choice? I’m writing this from Firefox on an IPhone?
    - approxim8ion 6y ago
      iOS does not allow you to use any engine other than WebKit (Safari). Firefox, Chrome, Brave etc, whatever browser you use on iOS is a wrapper around Safari's engine.
- pta2002 6y ago
  How does Chrome own the OS? ChromeOS is hardly what's making Chrome the dominant browser.
arkitaip 6y ago
Anyone else who worries about Firefox's market share? At which point does it become too difficult for Mozilla to fund the research and development of Firefox?
- gjsman-1000 6y ago
  The only thing keeping the lights on at Mozilla right now is their default search engine deal with Google. Which is quite ironic considering their constant anti-Google rhetoric - that Google is the one actually funding them. If Google were to decide they didn't need them anymore though or that deal due to their small market share, Mozilla is toast.
  - tasty_freeze 6y ago
    You call it ironic. Others might call it principled.
    - gjsman-1000 6y ago
      Principled? Maybe, but at the same time, consider that if you anger Google, that's literally 90% of your funding gone overnight and the platform by which you publish your principles won't exist anymore because it went bankrupt. It doesn't make sense to promote principles that bite the hand that feeds you, if that hand is the difference between you even existing or not. In which case, if you make your "principled" stance and bite Google's hand enough that Google drops the funding... great, you made headlines for a day, but it didn't really accomplish anything and have made the situation worse for everyone by making WebKit the only rendering engine left standing. Great job for principles.
      - tasty_freeze 6y ago
        Your logic is not lost on the people at Firefox, I'm sure. The fact that they are willing to risk pissing off Google when it contradicts Mozilla's stance about the open web is precisely why it is principled. Imagine working for a boss and you find out that he is cheating customers for millions of dollars. Say you objected to your boss, or reported him/her to the police. Would that be ironic because you might lose your job?
wdb 6y ago
I really like Microsoft Edge I have been using it since late 2019. First on Windows 10 at work but now also using it on my Macs at home
kactus 6y ago
I dumped Chrome in favor of Edge on Windows, it’s just that much better in my opinion. Especially with the new vertical tabs feature. On Mac I use Safari, with Edge as my Blink test browser. As far as I can tell it does not use Keystone for updates (https://chromeisbad.com https://chromeisbad.com)
SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
I mean, that's one way to solve cross-browser compatibility issues.
sumnole 6y ago
Vertical tabs, tab groupings, and collections are some of the reasons I switched from Opera. I do miss the pinnable Opera side dock for social media, and advanced shortcut customizations.
quyleanh 6y ago
I switch from Chrome to Edge and I have never come back. I even use Edge in my macOS for data sync. However, I face some heating problems on my Android device when using Edge. Hope that there will no "trick" from Google with Edge Chromium like Edge Legacy.
- perryizgr8 6y ago
  Same here. I use Edge on all my PCs and Macs. I had issues with the android version so I use Samsung browser on my phone. I just want to get rid of everything google in my life.
caspper69 6y ago
To be honest, the value proposition with Edge is quite compelling for my use cases. #1, I get a Chromium-based browser; #2) I get a browser that is supported by a big player who can stand on their own two feet; and #3) I get rid of all of the Google tracking that Chrome has built-in. It does work, I have noticed my experience on Google properties (Android devices included) becoming slowly de-personalized over time. This was the desired effect, and it has worked (at least on the surface) as intended. Now, please understand that my web experience is still largely shaped by Google, just not in the same way.
- mhh__ 6y ago
  > #3) I get rid of all of the Google tracking that Chrome has built-in. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss?
  - Turing_Machine 6y ago
    Not that I have any strong belief in Microsoft's purity, but Microsoft isn't primarily an advertising company, so...there's that.
ouid 6y ago
There is certainly a marketing power in forcing the users of Windows 10 to interact with your browser. I'm not sure why there isn't more skepticism about the claim that edge is "built into" Windows 10. Not even the superuser stackexchange is willing to engage with the idea of fully removing it from the operating system at this point.
- perryizgr8 6y ago
  Why would you want to remove it though? Every OS needs a default browser. If nothing, you need it to download Chrome!
  - ouid 6y ago
    What on earth do you mean why would I want to remove it? It's code that I don't want to run on MY computer. Maybe you need it to download another browser, but I am happily free of that necessity.
    - perryizgr8 6y ago
      Windows is an OS meant for normal users. Every normal user needs a default built-in browser. I'm sure you will do fine with a stripped down linux distro that ships without a window manager, but that's not what Windows is designed for. I don't want my old grandfather to uninstall edge by mistake and have no way to access any website. And where do you stop? What do you consider essential in an OS? Is the shell essential? Is a calculator essential? Is a terminal essential? How would you feel if Windows let users uninstall keyboard and mouse drivers?
ordx 6y ago
Quick reminder that Mozilla found money to increase CEO's salary to $3M, while they couldn't find money to retain 250 employees.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  Well, that makes sense, unless Mozilla's average employee gets paid $12,000/year.
- iams 6y ago
  That $3,000,000 would have payed each of the 250 employees $12,000. Do you think they would have stayed for $12,000 a year?
  - lmkg 6y ago
    They could have fired fewer people. It's a bad look to be firing people for lack of money while raising exec salary.
    - dragontamer 6y ago
      How much was the CEOs pay beforehand? If it was maybe 2.5 million, then they probably would have fired 245 programmers instead of 250, or maybe 247 programmers if they were senior level ($200+k/year once payroll tax and social security taxes are factored in. Hell, maybe 300k if we add benefits like health care or 401k plans) Even if the CEO were paid $0, we are looking at maybe 10 to 30 jobs at the best for that $3million (100k juniors to 300k seniors).
      - ordx 6y ago
        According to [1] it's increased by more than 400% [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Baker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Baker
        dragontamer 6y ago
        I feel like you're misleadingly quoting the Wikipedia article. > In 2018 she received a total of $2,458,350 in compensation from Mozilla, which represents a 400% payrise since 2008. ...... > By 2020 her salary had risen to over $3 million, while in the same year the Mozilla Corporation had to lay off approximately 250 employees due to shrinking revenues. Baker blamed this on the Coronavirus pandemic.[16] ---------- So its a 400% increase between 2008 and 2018, suggesting that her initial pay was an abysmal (for a CEO) pay of only $500k in 2008. For the period suggested (the period where Mozilla fired 250 employees), her pay only raised from ~$2.5 million to $3 million, which is in line with my expectations.
aokiji 6y ago
It does not help that Mozilla received money from George Soros to effectively be sabotaged from within.
ouid 6y ago
Date Chrome Safari Firefox Edge Edge Legacy 2020-03 68.11 8.93 9.25 0.57 4.56 2020-04 67.15 9.7 9.18 1.01 4.86 2020-05 68.33 9.4 8.91 1.24 4.41 2020-06 69.42 8.74 8.48 2.37 3.45 2020-07 69.55 8.36 8.61 4.12 1.93 2020-08 69.87 8.27 8.34 5.02 1.3 2020-09 69.71 8.73 8.15 5.54 0.94 2020-10 70.33 8.87 7.69 5.83 0.77 2020-11 67.71 9.83 7.95 6.82 0.69 2020-12 65.96 10.43 8.39 7.43 0.57 2021-01 66.59 10.38 8.1 7.81 0.52 2021-02 66.47 10.27 8.17 8.01 0.48 2021-03 67.14 10.11 7.95 8.03 0.44 Note that this is absolutely bullshit. If you combine Edge and Edge legacy into one product, we see less than a factor of 2. Edit: additionally note the conspicuous absence of internet explorer from this list which has been likewise EOLed. The total market share held by Chrome Safari and Firefox over this time has remained constant, and they had to get those 4% from somewhere, my guess is IE.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- TrainedMonkey 6y ago
  I see your perspective. It is much easier to group things into Microsoft vs Google vs Mozilla browsers. For Microsoft the picture is different, they are releasing new versions on a schedule and getting people to switch to whatever X+1 (Windows, Office, Edge, etc.) is a big deal. After all, if users think your new product is much worse than the old one is a hell of a signal on how well you are doing.
  - ouid 6y ago
    That is absolutely not what is happening here. Microsoft hasn't convinced anyone to switch from legacy edge to chromium edge. They end of lifed legacy edge and internet explorer. It cannot be a measure of preference. You cannot even use admin tools to revert or uninstall.
    - wayneftw 6y ago
      This is simply not true. Look around on some popular website comments. There are plenty of people singing the praises of the new Microsoft Edge. Personally I can't wait until it's fully released for Linux so that I can use it. I just want another chromium/webkit based choice from a major provider.
Jyaif 6y ago
And with it, you can bet that Bing's market share significantly grew as well. This is billions in additional ad revenues for Microsoft.
boublepop 6y ago
The hidden killer feature of edge is IE compatibility mode. This is what allowed our organization to finally move on from IE to a chromium based browser. Internally we just maintain a list for pages that require IE compatibility mode and no one notices at all. Prior to this IE was a required browser on all corporate machines and it was hell.
vondur 6y ago
If you have Windows build 20h2, it installs the latest Edge by default. Then the system will prompt you to try it out.
tored 6y ago
If your are going for a Chromium based browser I think that Microsoft Edge is one of the better ones. You can configure it to be somewhat minimal and does not force login you to some service like Chrome. Edge can also switch between profiles, like private and work, within the same browser session. They are working a Linux port https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download Unfortunate no AppImage, Flatpak or Snap.
CodeGlitch 6y ago
Go woke, go broke Mozilla. You could have concentrated on Firefox being the most secure and privacy-focused browser, but instead you spent energy on "progressive changes". You're first mistake was getting rid of Brendan Eich. Then you started removing useful features in Firefox (see RSS support, etc). I've moved on from Firefox now, but there's still a part of me that hopes you see the light and change your focus.
thiht 6y ago
Is it possible that Firefox market shares are skewed because of the users disabling telemetry/enabling privacy features? How to even account for that?

I'm sure if Firefox was rammed down people's throats the way Microsoft promoted Edge on W10 updates, then it would have a much higher ranking.

tored 6y ago
True, but the brand of Firefox has definitely died off. I remember the old days when even tech illiterate people knew about Firefox and wanted it installed on their computer.

mc32 6y ago

Obviously this is on the desktop. If you want a presence on the desktop, you have to own the OS like Windows, macOS and Chrome, unless regulators force a choice.

cpmsmith 6y ago
As opposed to what? Mobile is worse, with iOS not allowing a choice at all.
- gh-throw 6y ago
  You can change browsers, just not browser engines. This might bother me if any other browser engines seemed to give a damn about battery life, but since they don't, it's justifiable for the reason of preventing people from "mysteriously" having terrible battery life because ads on Google properties convinced them to install Chrome, at least.
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    > This might bother me if any other browser engines seemed to give a damn about battery life How do you know? How can you have measured it if Apple are having an ego trip and not letting them try?
    - gh-throw 6y ago
      The rest all demonstrably eat battery like it's free on every other platform? IDK, maybe Edge doesn't, but FF and Chrome sure do. [EDIT] Let me put it this way: I see no reason to expect the FF or Chrome engines to perform better on iOS than they do on Android, especially since that's the closest to a "home" platform that Chrome has (ChromeOS aside).
- boublepop 6y ago
  What makes you say IOS does not allow a choice? I’m writing this from Firefox on an IPhone?
  - approxim8ion 6y ago
    iOS does not allow you to use any engine other than WebKit (Safari). Firefox, Chrome, Brave etc, whatever browser you use on iOS is a wrapper around Safari's engine.
pta2002 6y ago
How does Chrome own the OS? ChromeOS is hardly what's making Chrome the dominant browser.

arkitaip 6y ago

Anyone else who worries about Firefox's market share? At which point does it become too difficult for Mozilla to fund the research and development of Firefox?

gjsman-1000 6y ago
The only thing keeping the lights on at Mozilla right now is their default search engine deal with Google. Which is quite ironic considering their constant anti-Google rhetoric - that Google is the one actually funding them. If Google were to decide they didn't need them anymore though or that deal due to their small market share, Mozilla is toast.
- tasty_freeze 6y ago
  You call it ironic. Others might call it principled.
  - gjsman-1000 6y ago
    Principled? Maybe, but at the same time, consider that if you anger Google, that's literally 90% of your funding gone overnight and the platform by which you publish your principles won't exist anymore because it went bankrupt. It doesn't make sense to promote principles that bite the hand that feeds you, if that hand is the difference between you even existing or not. In which case, if you make your "principled" stance and bite Google's hand enough that Google drops the funding... great, you made headlines for a day, but it didn't really accomplish anything and have made the situation worse for everyone by making WebKit the only rendering engine left standing. Great job for principles.
    - tasty_freeze 6y ago
      Your logic is not lost on the people at Firefox, I'm sure. The fact that they are willing to risk pissing off Google when it contradicts Mozilla's stance about the open web is precisely why it is principled. Imagine working for a boss and you find out that he is cheating customers for millions of dollars. Say you objected to your boss, or reported him/her to the police. Would that be ironic because you might lose your job?

wdb 6y ago

I really like Microsoft Edge I have been using it since late 2019. First on Windows 10 at work but now also using it on my Macs at home

kactus 6y ago

I dumped Chrome in favor of Edge on Windows, it’s just that much better in my opinion. Especially with the new vertical tabs feature. On Mac I use Safari, with Edge as my Blink test browser. As far as I can tell it does not use Keystone for updates (https://chromeisbad.com https://chromeisbad.com)

SketchySeaBeast 6y ago

I mean, that's one way to solve cross-browser compatibility issues.

sumnole 6y ago

Vertical tabs, tab groupings, and collections are some of the reasons I switched from Opera. I do miss the pinnable Opera side dock for social media, and advanced shortcut customizations.

quyleanh 6y ago

I switch from Chrome to Edge and I have never come back. I even use Edge in my macOS for data sync. However, I face some heating problems on my Android device when using Edge. Hope that there will no "trick" from Google with Edge Chromium like Edge Legacy.

perryizgr8 6y ago
Same here. I use Edge on all my PCs and Macs. I had issues with the android version so I use Samsung browser on my phone. I just want to get rid of everything google in my life.

caspper69 6y ago

To be honest, the value proposition with Edge is quite compelling for my use cases. #1, I get a Chromium-based browser; #2) I get a browser that is supported by a big player who can stand on their own two feet; and #3) I get rid of all of the Google tracking that Chrome has built-in. It does work, I have noticed my experience on Google properties (Android devices included) becoming slowly de-personalized over time. This was the desired effect, and it has worked (at least on the surface) as intended. Now, please understand that my web experience is still largely shaped by Google, just not in the same way.

mhh__ 6y ago
> #3) I get rid of all of the Google tracking that Chrome has built-in. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss?
- Turing_Machine 6y ago
  Not that I have any strong belief in Microsoft's purity, but Microsoft isn't primarily an advertising company, so...there's that.

ouid 6y ago

There is certainly a marketing power in forcing the users of Windows 10 to interact with your browser. I'm not sure why there isn't more skepticism about the claim that edge is "built into" Windows 10. Not even the superuser stackexchange is willing to engage with the idea of fully removing it from the operating system at this point.

perryizgr8 6y ago
Why would you want to remove it though? Every OS needs a default browser. If nothing, you need it to download Chrome!
- ouid 6y ago
  What on earth do you mean why would I want to remove it? It's code that I don't want to run on MY computer. Maybe you need it to download another browser, but I am happily free of that necessity.
  - perryizgr8 6y ago
    Windows is an OS meant for normal users. Every normal user needs a default built-in browser. I'm sure you will do fine with a stripped down linux distro that ships without a window manager, but that's not what Windows is designed for. I don't want my old grandfather to uninstall edge by mistake and have no way to access any website. And where do you stop? What do you consider essential in an OS? Is the shell essential? Is a calculator essential? Is a terminal essential? How would you feel if Windows let users uninstall keyboard and mouse drivers?

ordx 6y ago

Quick reminder that Mozilla found money to increase CEO's salary to $3M, while they couldn't find money to retain 250 employees.

ceejayoz 6y ago
Well, that makes sense, unless Mozilla's average employee gets paid $12,000/year.
iams 6y ago
That $3,000,000 would have payed each of the 250 employees $12,000. Do you think they would have stayed for $12,000 a year?
- lmkg 6y ago
  They could have fired fewer people. It's a bad look to be firing people for lack of money while raising exec salary.
  - dragontamer 6y ago
    How much was the CEOs pay beforehand? If it was maybe 2.5 million, then they probably would have fired 245 programmers instead of 250, or maybe 247 programmers if they were senior level ($200+k/year once payroll tax and social security taxes are factored in. Hell, maybe 300k if we add benefits like health care or 401k plans) Even if the CEO were paid $0, we are looking at maybe 10 to 30 jobs at the best for that $3million (100k juniors to 300k seniors).
    - ordx 6y ago
      According to [1] it's increased by more than 400% [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Baker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Baker
      - dragontamer 6y ago
        I feel like you're misleadingly quoting the Wikipedia article. > In 2018 she received a total of $2,458,350 in compensation from Mozilla, which represents a 400% payrise since 2008. ...... > By 2020 her salary had risen to over $3 million, while in the same year the Mozilla Corporation had to lay off approximately 250 employees due to shrinking revenues. Baker blamed this on the Coronavirus pandemic.[16] ---------- So its a 400% increase between 2008 and 2018, suggesting that her initial pay was an abysmal (for a CEO) pay of only $500k in 2008. For the period suggested (the period where Mozilla fired 250 employees), her pay only raised from ~$2.5 million to $3 million, which is in line with my expectations.

aokiji 6y ago

It does not help that Mozilla received money from George Soros to effectively be sabotaged from within.

ouid 6y ago

Date Chrome Safari Firefox Edge Edge Legacy 2020-03 68.11 8.93 9.25 0.57 4.56 2020-04 67.15 9.7 9.18 1.01 4.86 2020-05 68.33 9.4 8.91 1.24 4.41 2020-06 69.42 8.74 8.48 2.37 3.45 2020-07 69.55 8.36 8.61 4.12 1.93 2020-08 69.87 8.27 8.34 5.02 1.3 2020-09 69.71 8.73 8.15 5.54 0.94 2020-10 70.33 8.87 7.69 5.83 0.77 2020-11 67.71 9.83 7.95 6.82 0.69 2020-12 65.96 10.43 8.39 7.43 0.57 2021-01 66.59 10.38 8.1 7.81 0.52 2021-02 66.47 10.27 8.17 8.01 0.48 2021-03 67.14 10.11 7.95 8.03 0.44 Note that this is absolutely bullshit. If you combine Edge and Edge legacy into one product, we see less than a factor of 2. Edit: additionally note the conspicuous absence of internet explorer from this list which has been likewise EOLed. The total market share held by Chrome Safari and Firefox over this time has remained constant, and they had to get those 4% from somewhere, my guess is IE.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
TrainedMonkey 6y ago
I see your perspective. It is much easier to group things into Microsoft vs Google vs Mozilla browsers. For Microsoft the picture is different, they are releasing new versions on a schedule and getting people to switch to whatever X+1 (Windows, Office, Edge, etc.) is a big deal. After all, if users think your new product is much worse than the old one is a hell of a signal on how well you are doing.
- ouid 6y ago
  That is absolutely not what is happening here. Microsoft hasn't convinced anyone to switch from legacy edge to chromium edge. They end of lifed legacy edge and internet explorer. It cannot be a measure of preference. You cannot even use admin tools to revert or uninstall.
  - wayneftw 6y ago
    This is simply not true. Look around on some popular website comments. There are plenty of people singing the praises of the new Microsoft Edge. Personally I can't wait until it's fully released for Linux so that I can use it. I just want another chromium/webkit based choice from a major provider.

Jyaif 6y ago

And with it, you can bet that Bing's market share significantly grew as well. This is billions in additional ad revenues for Microsoft.

boublepop 6y ago

The hidden killer feature of edge is IE compatibility mode. This is what allowed our organization to finally move on from IE to a chromium based browser. Internally we just maintain a list for pages that require IE compatibility mode and no one notices at all. Prior to this IE was a required browser on all corporate machines and it was hell.

vondur 6y ago

If you have Windows build 20h2, it installs the latest Edge by default. Then the system will prompt you to try it out.

tored 6y ago

If your are going for a Chromium based browser I think that Microsoft Edge is one of the better ones. You can configure it to be somewhat minimal and does not force login you to some service like Chrome. Edge can also switch between profiles, like private and work, within the same browser session. They are working a Linux port https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download Unfortunate no AppImage, Flatpak or Snap.

CodeGlitch 6y ago

Go woke, go broke Mozilla. You could have concentrated on Firefox being the most secure and privacy-focused browser, but instead you spent energy on "progressive changes". You're first mistake was getting rid of Brendan Eich. Then you started removing useful features in Firefox (see RSS support, etc). I've moved on from Firefox now, but there's still a part of me that hopes you see the light and change your focus.

thiht 6y ago

Is it possible that Firefox market shares are skewed because of the users disabling telemetry/enabling privacy features? How to even account for that?