3 ms·

I remember it differently here in the Netherlands. While the Dutch CDC was actively downplaying the severity and risk of the virus in Februari, plane-loads of m

I remember it differently here in the Netherlands. While the Dutch CDC was actively downplaying the severity and risk of the virus in Februari, plane-loads of masks and other protective equipment were shipped to China. Many Asians were actively hoarding masks in retail to have them sent to family members as well. When the RIVM heard of these actions in February, they downplayed the effectivity of masks. Only in March and April, when the crisis hit us (unprepared), reasons had to be given why our supplies of masks were depleted. This is when the media started spinning the story that mask wearing causes increased touching of the face. There is no scientific basis for that claim.

tinus_hn 6y ago
So is RIVM a scientific institution or is it not? Are they to be believed or not? Or do you get to pick and choose when to believe them?
- edejong 6y ago
  The RIVM is a scientific institute. In addition to that, they provide an advisory service to the Dutch government and to the Dutch population. You should never believe anyone outright (including oneself). So yes, you get to choose when to believe them. The RIVM has traditionally had a very good reputation to its level of scientific research. Nevertheless, this does not entail a good consulting role on policy making, especially under duress. In conversations I have had with governance experts, the relatively weak political position of the RIVM has come up many times. During normal times, this political position is irrelevant, since the RIVM is merely a reflection of scientific insights. During times of crisis and power struggles, the leadership position crumbles. That, in and of itself, is the sole reason the RIVM has struggled the last year. Power was not balanced. You can see this numerous times: - RIVM was forced to make a position on the role of COVID-19 on children. Absence of evidence became evidence of absence. - RIVM was forced to make a position on face masks. Same thing happened. There simply was not enough strong evidence (according to their own strict rules of peer-reviewed, double-blind research). Similar miscommunications have happened on the topic of aerosols and schools as an important contributing vector. Please realise how important this is. This is a large scale and continuing failure of governance.
  - tinus_hn 6y ago
    Oh believe me, I do realize. RIVM is a complete failure, it’s a scientific institute that has lent itself to political tricks. It is completely untrustworthy and has shown time and again it is willing to lie for political purposes. RIVM by law is independent. It cannot be forced to take positions. It is by its own choice that it bends over backwards and makes false statements for political purposes. It is a scientific institution that has failed science. It is rotten to the core, it is less than worthless, it must be dismantled and replaced.

tinus_hn 6y ago

So is RIVM a scientific institution or is it not? Are they to be believed or not? Or do you get to pick and choose when to believe them?

edejong 6y ago
The RIVM is a scientific institute. In addition to that, they provide an advisory service to the Dutch government and to the Dutch population. You should never believe anyone outright (including oneself). So yes, you get to choose when to believe them. The RIVM has traditionally had a very good reputation to its level of scientific research. Nevertheless, this does not entail a good consulting role on policy making, especially under duress. In conversations I have had with governance experts, the relatively weak political position of the RIVM has come up many times. During normal times, this political position is irrelevant, since the RIVM is merely a reflection of scientific insights. During times of crisis and power struggles, the leadership position crumbles. That, in and of itself, is the sole reason the RIVM has struggled the last year. Power was not balanced. You can see this numerous times: - RIVM was forced to make a position on the role of COVID-19 on children. Absence of evidence became evidence of absence. - RIVM was forced to make a position on face masks. Same thing happened. There simply was not enough strong evidence (according to their own strict rules of peer-reviewed, double-blind research). Similar miscommunications have happened on the topic of aerosols and schools as an important contributing vector. Please realise how important this is. This is a large scale and continuing failure of governance.
- tinus_hn 6y ago
  Oh believe me, I do realize. RIVM is a complete failure, it’s a scientific institute that has lent itself to political tricks. It is completely untrustworthy and has shown time and again it is willing to lie for political purposes. RIVM by law is independent. It cannot be forced to take positions. It is by its own choice that it bends over backwards and makes false statements for political purposes. It is a scientific institution that has failed science. It is rotten to the core, it is less than worthless, it must be dismantled and replaced.