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As that article states it was potentially a useful source for age and gender demographic data. Google Analytics has this as well but I’d assume more people have

As that article states it was potentially a useful source for age and gender demographic data. Google Analytics has this as well but I’d assume more people have given more precise data about their age and gender to Facebook than they have to Google.

m463 6y ago
I wonder if this boils down to - who has provided more labeled photos of themselves?
busymom0 6y ago
I would have thought the opposite - that more people would have given accurate info about age and gender to Google than Facebook. After all, your search results on Google, YouTube etc, your premium subscriptions to YouTube or Google drive etc all provide accurate info to Google. Btw by saying this, I don’t mean to say I trust Google more than FB. I trust neither and prefer DuckDuckGo.
- garbagetime 6y ago
  Do you trust DuckDuckGo?
  - samstave 6y ago
    More than goog or FB? Held yeah. FB is like. Creepy stalker sways hiding upside every window and spying on you when it’s completely unrelated to your relationship with FB. Goog is more like the gestapo eavesdropping on every phone call you have and visit to the library you make DuckDuckGo is like asking a stranger for directions who’s going to forget they ever met you in a few minutes.
    - garbagetime 6y ago
      What reason do I have to assume that DuckDuckGo is not collecting data about me? How can I be sure they're going to forget we ever met after a few minutes?
      - scrose 6y ago
        The fact that their entire business and privacy policy is built on that idea? Trust isn't a binary thing. You can trust someone but still, rightfully, be concerned that what they're saying may not be 100% accurate. But if you have to choose who to trust more between two established companies, with one stating 'We don't collect your personal information, here's why you should care.' and another saying 'When you use our services, you’re trusting us with your information'. And the latter proceeds to hit you with a 50+ page doc explaining how they track essentially every interaction you make on their services, or services that use them, which would you trust more?
        garbagetime 6y ago
        My question was whether or not we should trust DuckDuckGo, not whether DuckDuckGo is more trustworthy than some alternatives, and not whether they collect less user-specific data than some alternatives. My thinking is that there isn't much reason to trust them. I disagree that their business is built on them being trustworthy. Their business is built on people believing them trustworthy. This may act as a disincentive to act in an untrustworthy manner, but it is simply another factor for their cost-benefit analyses. Most companies benefit from appearing trustworthy, such as banks, but the unfortunate reality is that this doesn't mean that they will actually work in your best interest.
        Spooky23 6y ago
        Even if they are just faux-trustworthy, that certainly limits their room for maneuver. Facebook basically says "so what" and issues a non-apology later. DDG's whole reason to exist is predicated on their behavior.
        scrose 6y ago
        > My question was whether or not we should trust DuckDuckGo, not whether DuckDuckGo is more trustworthy than some alternatives, and not whether they collect less user-specific data than some alternatives. Your question would be answered far better by reading their privacy policies and help site[0] to get an idea of everything they do to preserve your privacy, rather than asking on Hackernews. Of course, if you don't believe what the company is saying, I'm not sure what a rando on HN can say to convince you otherwise? [0] https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/privacy/no-tracking/ https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/privacy/no...
londons_explore 6y ago
Does the data precision on an individual level matter? As long as it's slightly better than random and the confusion matrix is known, then accurate aggregate statistics can be generated for any site that has more than a handful of users.
- XorNot 6y ago
  Its never been clear to me why Facebook would have better ad targeting data then Google. Facebook has only ever had a passive view of its products, whereas Google has an active one - people go to Google and declare their desires and intents. Who cares about age and demographics when someone will tell you exactly what they're currently looking for?
  - strgcmc 6y ago
    Because you can sell them something other than the one thing they are looking for. Contrived example: I search for "buying new SUV" so clearly you should show me new car ads and car buying articles and reviews. But if I am a mid-30s married person, you might also try to sell me car seats for the babies I demographically am likely to have or want to have soon. OTOH, if am an older 60s retired widow, you may want to advertise warranty and car maintenance plans for my peace of mind about taking care of the car. Actually it's a little more nuanced than that, because I could be mid-30s and married but choosing to be childfree, or I could be a 65 year old widow and former car mechanic who is more than capable of taking care of my own vehicle. So collecting the demographic data is about building a gradient of probabilities, things that are ranked in likelihood of value/relevance, and using that information to inform the demand side of advertisers deciding how much to bid for my eyeballs.
    - XorNot 6y ago
      Sure if that was how Google worked - but Google would also have found you searching for "what to expect from pregnancy?" and "tax implications of a spouse dying", or "developments in car maintenance". Facebook finds out what you think to share, Google finds out what you're doing and generally the path you took to get there. Google News has always uncannily followed by current job's tertiary areas, for example.
Spooky23 6y ago
Not an expert on the topic, but Facebook allows for very localized/granular targeting. I'm sure that somebody could identity individuals with the data they expose.
- mr-wendel 6y ago
  A bit dated and probably things have changed... but yes. http://ghostinfluence.com/the-ultimate-retaliation-pranking-my-roommate-with-targeted-facebook-ads/ http://ghostinfluence.com/the-ultimate-retaliation-pranking-...

m463 6y ago

I wonder if this boils down to - who has provided more labeled photos of themselves?

busymom0 6y ago

I would have thought the opposite - that more people would have given accurate info about age and gender to Google than Facebook. After all, your search results on Google, YouTube etc, your premium subscriptions to YouTube or Google drive etc all provide accurate info to Google. Btw by saying this, I don’t mean to say I trust Google more than FB. I trust neither and prefer DuckDuckGo.

garbagetime 6y ago
Do you trust DuckDuckGo?
- samstave 6y ago
  More than goog or FB? Held yeah. FB is like. Creepy stalker sways hiding upside every window and spying on you when it’s completely unrelated to your relationship with FB. Goog is more like the gestapo eavesdropping on every phone call you have and visit to the library you make DuckDuckGo is like asking a stranger for directions who’s going to forget they ever met you in a few minutes.
  - garbagetime 6y ago
    What reason do I have to assume that DuckDuckGo is not collecting data about me? How can I be sure they're going to forget we ever met after a few minutes?
    - scrose 6y ago
      The fact that their entire business and privacy policy is built on that idea? Trust isn't a binary thing. You can trust someone but still, rightfully, be concerned that what they're saying may not be 100% accurate. But if you have to choose who to trust more between two established companies, with one stating 'We don't collect your personal information, here's why you should care.' and another saying 'When you use our services, you’re trusting us with your information'. And the latter proceeds to hit you with a 50+ page doc explaining how they track essentially every interaction you make on their services, or services that use them, which would you trust more?
      - garbagetime 6y ago
        My question was whether or not we should trust DuckDuckGo, not whether DuckDuckGo is more trustworthy than some alternatives, and not whether they collect less user-specific data than some alternatives. My thinking is that there isn't much reason to trust them. I disagree that their business is built on them being trustworthy. Their business is built on people believing them trustworthy. This may act as a disincentive to act in an untrustworthy manner, but it is simply another factor for their cost-benefit analyses. Most companies benefit from appearing trustworthy, such as banks, but the unfortunate reality is that this doesn't mean that they will actually work in your best interest.
        Spooky23 6y ago
        Even if they are just faux-trustworthy, that certainly limits their room for maneuver. Facebook basically says "so what" and issues a non-apology later. DDG's whole reason to exist is predicated on their behavior.
        scrose 6y ago
        > My question was whether or not we should trust DuckDuckGo, not whether DuckDuckGo is more trustworthy than some alternatives, and not whether they collect less user-specific data than some alternatives. Your question would be answered far better by reading their privacy policies and help site[0] to get an idea of everything they do to preserve your privacy, rather than asking on Hackernews. Of course, if you don't believe what the company is saying, I'm not sure what a rando on HN can say to convince you otherwise? [0] https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/privacy/no-tracking/ https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/privacy/no...

londons_explore 6y ago

Does the data precision on an individual level matter? As long as it's slightly better than random and the confusion matrix is known, then accurate aggregate statistics can be generated for any site that has more than a handful of users.

XorNot 6y ago
Its never been clear to me why Facebook would have better ad targeting data then Google. Facebook has only ever had a passive view of its products, whereas Google has an active one - people go to Google and declare their desires and intents. Who cares about age and demographics when someone will tell you exactly what they're currently looking for?
- strgcmc 6y ago
  Because you can sell them something other than the one thing they are looking for. Contrived example: I search for "buying new SUV" so clearly you should show me new car ads and car buying articles and reviews. But if I am a mid-30s married person, you might also try to sell me car seats for the babies I demographically am likely to have or want to have soon. OTOH, if am an older 60s retired widow, you may want to advertise warranty and car maintenance plans for my peace of mind about taking care of the car. Actually it's a little more nuanced than that, because I could be mid-30s and married but choosing to be childfree, or I could be a 65 year old widow and former car mechanic who is more than capable of taking care of my own vehicle. So collecting the demographic data is about building a gradient of probabilities, things that are ranked in likelihood of value/relevance, and using that information to inform the demand side of advertisers deciding how much to bid for my eyeballs.
  - XorNot 6y ago
    Sure if that was how Google worked - but Google would also have found you searching for "what to expect from pregnancy?" and "tax implications of a spouse dying", or "developments in car maintenance". Facebook finds out what you think to share, Google finds out what you're doing and generally the path you took to get there. Google News has always uncannily followed by current job's tertiary areas, for example.

Spooky23 6y ago

Not an expert on the topic, but Facebook allows for very localized/granular targeting. I'm sure that somebody could identity individuals with the data they expose.

mr-wendel 6y ago
A bit dated and probably things have changed... but yes. http://ghostinfluence.com/the-ultimate-retaliation-pranking-my-roommate-with-targeted-facebook-ads/ http://ghostinfluence.com/the-ultimate-retaliation-pranking-...