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The counterletter accepted signatures for longer than the original letter, and it was heavily promoted in the Eastern bloc, which is very sympathetic towards ca

The counterletter accepted signatures for longer than the original letter, and it was heavily promoted in the Eastern bloc, which is very sympathetic towards causes that exclude women and other minorities. The original letter is signed by many of us who actually write the free software and who are part of GNU. I recognise people in the original letter I've collaborated on GNU software with, people I've met at conferences, people I've worked on bug reports with. There are a few personalities in the counterletter, but if we're going by "jury of peers" there are far more peers in the original letter than the counterletter. The signatures in the two letters are a clear case of quantity vs quality.

kstenerud 6y ago
Yes, yes, and I'm sure the other camp would have similar complaints about the quality of your camp's signatures and membership. This is how it always goes when people square off on emotional topics: Victory through decibels.
- jordigh 6y ago
  One side of signatories is writing the free software we all use and has regularly and directly dealt with rms. The other side is shitposting in 4chan and probably has never had to meet rms. Yeah, the quality of the signatories is obvious.
  - kstenerud 6y ago
    Do you have evidence to support these allegations?
    - jordigh 6y ago
      I saw the letter being drafted and promoted in /g/ and if you go there now you'll find threads talking about it, I bet. But it is 4chan and threads don't stay up long or get archived, so you can be content in thinking I'm lying if you prefer.
      - kstenerud 6y ago
        Much like the letter against him was being drafted and promoted in the open? I fail to see the sinister edge of this in either camp. I took a look, and both letters garnered many comments (for and against) on many platforms as they were being written and promoted, as it should be when doing such things. They are collective actions, after all. Sorry, but there really is nothing here.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        jordigh 6y ago
        The quality of the sites where each letter was promoted is not the same. That was my point. They weren't all promoted to the same people and the type of signatories show: people who actually work on the software vs people who don't. Not everything is the same to everything else. Nuance and distinction is possible.
flapq 6y ago
It was not "promoted in the Eastern bloc". People from those regions could sign it under their real names without repercussions. The anti-Stallman letter is signed by the usual SJW developers who jump at any chance to cancel someone. Some of these went straight to positions of power in projects without having contributed anything of value. These developers represent less than 5% of projects, the other 95% either does not care or is scared to sign the pro-Stallman letter.
- a1369209993 6y ago
  > People from those regions could sign it under their real names without repercussions. Precisely this; conversely, many people who signed the anti-Stallman letter were in positions where they would risk repercussions for not signing it, though it's (by design) hard to be sure to what extent that's why they signed it. > either does not care To be fair, I suspect >50% fall into this category.
- jordigh 6y ago
  > It was not "promoted in the Eastern bloc" Yes it was, the counterletter was posted on Russian forums a number of times, and it was regularly promoted in 4chan's /g/ too, where it was also drafted. There's probably still /g/ threads promoting the counterletter right now, as this is a cause celebre for 4chan. It's a 4chan-written letter promoted in the Russian-speaking internet. Russia has a well-documented state-sponsored homophobia and that attitude trickles down to many of her citizens in various ways.

kstenerud 6y ago

Yes, yes, and I'm sure the other camp would have similar complaints about the quality of your camp's signatures and membership. This is how it always goes when people square off on emotional topics: Victory through decibels.

jordigh 6y ago
One side of signatories is writing the free software we all use and has regularly and directly dealt with rms. The other side is shitposting in 4chan and probably has never had to meet rms. Yeah, the quality of the signatories is obvious.
- kstenerud 6y ago
  Do you have evidence to support these allegations?
  - jordigh 6y ago
    I saw the letter being drafted and promoted in /g/ and if you go there now you'll find threads talking about it, I bet. But it is 4chan and threads don't stay up long or get archived, so you can be content in thinking I'm lying if you prefer.
    - kstenerud 6y ago
      Much like the letter against him was being drafted and promoted in the open? I fail to see the sinister edge of this in either camp. I took a look, and both letters garnered many comments (for and against) on many platforms as they were being written and promoted, as it should be when doing such things. They are collective actions, after all. Sorry, but there really is nothing here.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - jordigh 6y ago
        The quality of the sites where each letter was promoted is not the same. That was my point. They weren't all promoted to the same people and the type of signatories show: people who actually work on the software vs people who don't. Not everything is the same to everything else. Nuance and distinction is possible.

flapq 6y ago

It was not "promoted in the Eastern bloc". People from those regions could sign it under their real names without repercussions. The anti-Stallman letter is signed by the usual SJW developers who jump at any chance to cancel someone. Some of these went straight to positions of power in projects without having contributed anything of value. These developers represent less than 5% of projects, the other 95% either does not care or is scared to sign the pro-Stallman letter.

a1369209993 6y ago
> People from those regions could sign it under their real names without repercussions. Precisely this; conversely, many people who signed the anti-Stallman letter were in positions where they would risk repercussions for not signing it, though it's (by design) hard to be sure to what extent that's why they signed it. > either does not care To be fair, I suspect >50% fall into this category.
jordigh 6y ago
> It was not "promoted in the Eastern bloc" Yes it was, the counterletter was posted on Russian forums a number of times, and it was regularly promoted in 4chan's /g/ too, where it was also drafted. There's probably still /g/ threads promoting the counterletter right now, as this is a cause celebre for 4chan. It's a 4chan-written letter promoted in the Russian-speaking internet. Russia has a well-documented state-sponsored homophobia and that attitude trickles down to many of her citizens in various ways.