7 ms·

I don't get what you mean. Please explain.

by oblib 6y ago

gigatexal 6y ago
Facebook needs to be shutdown as it poses an existential threat to democracy because it provides a platform for the worst of us to amplify their messages of hate and division and to spread conspiracies. It facilitates people who would otherwise not be able to find others like them to organize. So instead of the crazy person on the corner with a sign condemning homosexuals or spouting conspiracies that most would look at and laugh these people find others like them and become ever more extreme. Addendum: This isn’t about Zuckerberg. Any other dominant social network will be co-opted in the same way because of inherent flaws in people: we are prone to groupthink and as demographics change such that there’s an ever growing acceptance of conspiracy theories and greater division in American politics for example Facebook will continue to drive discord and thereby profits from further engagement on its service by exploiting these inner human vices.
- johnwheeler 6y ago
  Not only that but it’s changed the social dynamic in a shitty way.
  - brink 6y ago
    Social media has brought out the worst in us.
    - BugWatch 6y ago
      And US, too.
- throwaway1777 6y ago
  Social networking has its issues but it’s not the root of all evil. These copypasta-esque rants about FB being a threat to democracy are as bad as anything you’d see on FB itself.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- bluescrn 6y ago
  -
  - iamacyborg 6y ago
    Citation needed
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- sagolikasoppor 6y ago
  You americans are really good at sounding intelligent while you just spew out shit, I gotta give you that.
  - dang 6y ago
    Posts like this will get you banned on HN. Please don't post nationalistic or personal attacks. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- apples_oranges 6y ago
  For some odd synapse firing reason this quote popped into my mind while reading your comment: "It tells me that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try reading books instead of BURNING them!" - Henry Jones - Last Crusade - Not wishing to insult you but you want to get rid of a service that you personally dislike. Newsflash: Many people don't share that opinion. (And I'm frankly almost as tired of hearing it as I am tired of hearing about the amazing benefits of crypto currencies.)
  - DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
    just because we are all tired of this fight is no reason that the fight and outrage should stop. if anything it means that FB has won and US propagandists have achieved their goal: exhaustion of the enemy. anyone in this thread arguing in defense of FB has never supported the #DeleteFacebook movement in the first place (perhaps because they're eyeing a job in that firm or are already working there). It doesn't change the fact that facebook (and other BigTech) needs to be fought like cancer: Either we survive BigTech by fighting it perpetually to the teeth or it's going to kill us (in some cases quite literally - see Rohinga or similar). the problem is larger than FB. it's rampant in all areas of BigTech and chances are high many here are guilty for working on the destruction of society. See for example Stripe (an "innocent" payment processor) which processes payments for the Proud Boys: https://www.ourfreedomfunding.com/campaign/19/freespazzo-dominic-pezzola https://www.ourfreedomfunding.com/campaign/19/freespazzo-dom... https://www.ourfreedomfunding.com/campaign/23/financial-aid-for-ethan-nordean-rufio https://www.ourfreedomfunding.com/campaign/23/financial-aid-... See also Cloudflare which is happy to protect such sites as the one above (and has a history of doing so): https://www.fastcompany.com/90312063/how-cloudflare-straddles-its-role-as-privacy-champion-and-hate-speech-enabler https://www.fastcompany.com/90312063/how-cloudflare-straddle... The real problem comes from having a small highly paid and entitled circle of Tech people in the US be the arbiter of truth and social values worldwide.
    - headmelted 6y ago
      Your suggestion is fighting fascism with fascism, and it reads like maybe you don’t realise that? “BigTech needs to be fought like cancer”. When did we all agree to this?
- DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
  > Facebook needs to be shutdown as it poses an existential threat to democracy I really would welcome that but no way it will. 1) even if it were banned in many countries it would still survive in the US for Intel/NatSec reasons. 2) it's so ingrained in society that it's unthinkable that it could disappear. In many countries facebook _is_ the Internet and large parts of the economy and social fabric (as toxic and shitty as it is) depend on it. This has implications to 1) (e.g. NatSec) above, because 3) FB is part of the US propaganda[1] machine. Radio free Europe or VoA, etc dwarf in comparison of what US dominated BigTech does[2]. See also trending here recently [3] note especially the title changed from the original official title (presumably to be less inflammatory even though the original title made exactly that point and the new title does the bidding for the propagandists). FB is too big too fail in every sense. It is impossible to fight legally (or with illegal means it will survive like the stubborn parasite it is) [1] Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Attitudes by Jacques Ellul https://archive.org/details/Propaganda_201512 https://archive.org/details/Propaganda_201512 [2] https://thenextweb.com/distract/2020/12/21/how-netflix-shapes-mainstream-culture-explained-by-data/ https://thenextweb.com/distract/2020/12/21/how-netflix-shape... [3] How Netflix is creating a common European culture https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26696396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26696396
  - disabled 6y ago
    This is very thoughtful. I do not know why people downvoted your comment. I personally despise Facebook and all of its services.
    - DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
      > I do not know why people downvoted your comment. reason why people call me out for my behavior is this: > I personally despise Facebook ^^ I do not agree with the mainstream view which is to hold companies liable for their actions. Instead my attitude (and I get why people have a hard time with it) is to direct my anger at the individuals hiding behind these big-corps. I'm making it personal because for me it is. We (humans in most "civilized" countries) made a huge mistake by allowing a company to be a "legal" person which gives people the ability to hide their ghoulish behavior behind the legal facade of a company. You can not win a fight as a person against a company (only in rare cases that don't matter much). As a legal person I can fund terror with shell/shelf companies and get away with paying 0% income tax (e.g. Netflix, Google and all other cancerous US companies registered in Ireland or Luxembourg) while as a natural person I get away scot-free. My solution to the problem is too radical for most as it calls out the Zuckerberg's, Eric Princes, Peter Thiel, Bezos, Musk, Koch, Trumps and hundreds of others. People here absolutely hate that and (in some cases rightfully) attack me because what I propose is against the law and probably violates my own code of human rights. If laws don't serve us we have to change them and in many cases this will not be possible without violence. I'm not saying I have a solution[1] for it but I also can't see how companies should continue to get away with destruction of society (and the environment). Until we start eating the rich (metaphorically) and they start fearing the rest of us (again) nothing will change. [1] my pov is constantly evolving and in many regards half baked, e.g. I also am deeply suspicious of more government power to solve these issues or any form of "seizing the means of production". and I think that technology (science) will even less be able to provide a cure for something that isn't a technological problem (see Jacques Ellul "The Technological Society"). again I absolutely need to stress that I have no solution either.
- headmelted 6y ago
  You’ve basically just described an Eternal September which pre-dates Facebook by about a decade. Taking away the platform doesn’t change the inherent nature of these people, who could easily educate themselves with actual facts if they chose to do so.
  - gigatexal 6y ago
    Key is “if they chose to” do so. But to overcome one’s own ethnocentrism and cognitive biases is proving to be difficult.
    - headmelted 6y ago
      I agree, I just feel like it’s worth calling a spade a spade. People believe horrible falsehoods because they are simpler, more convenient and (critically) more exciting than taking the time to understand actual facts. That’s laziness, with victims.

I don't get what you mean. Please explain.

by oblib 6y ago

I don't get what you mean. Please explain.

Facebook needs to be shutdown as it poses an existential threat to democracy because it provides a platform for the worst of us to amplify their messages of hate and division and to spread conspiracies. It facilitates people who would otherwise not be able to find others like them to organize. So instead of the crazy person on the corner with a sign condemning homosexuals or spouting conspiracies that most would look at and laugh these people find others like them and become ever more extreme. Addendum: This isn’t about Zuckerberg. Any other dominant social network will be co-opted in the same way because of inherent flaws in people: we are prone to groupthink and as demographics change such that there’s an ever growing acceptance of conspiracy theories and greater division in American politics for example Facebook will continue to drive discord and thereby profits from further engagement on its service by exploiting these inner human vices.

johnwheeler 6y ago
Not only that but it’s changed the social dynamic in a shitty way.
- brink 6y ago
  Social media has brought out the worst in us.
  - BugWatch 6y ago
    And US, too.
throwaway1777 6y ago
Social networking has its issues but it’s not the root of all evil. These copypasta-esque rants about FB being a threat to democracy are as bad as anything you’d see on FB itself.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
bluescrn 6y ago
-
- iamacyborg 6y ago
  Citation needed
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
sagolikasoppor 6y ago
You americans are really good at sounding intelligent while you just spew out shit, I gotta give you that.
- dang 6y ago
  Posts like this will get you banned on HN. Please don't post nationalistic or personal attacks. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
apples_oranges 6y ago
For some odd synapse firing reason this quote popped into my mind while reading your comment: "It tells me that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try reading books instead of BURNING them!" - Henry Jones - Last Crusade - Not wishing to insult you but you want to get rid of a service that you personally dislike. Newsflash: Many people don't share that opinion. (And I'm frankly almost as tired of hearing it as I am tired of hearing about the amazing benefits of crypto currencies.)
- DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
  just because we are all tired of this fight is no reason that the fight and outrage should stop. if anything it means that FB has won and US propagandists have achieved their goal: exhaustion of the enemy. anyone in this thread arguing in defense of FB has never supported the #DeleteFacebook movement in the first place (perhaps because they're eyeing a job in that firm or are already working there). It doesn't change the fact that facebook (and other BigTech) needs to be fought like cancer: Either we survive BigTech by fighting it perpetually to the teeth or it's going to kill us (in some cases quite literally - see Rohinga or similar). the problem is larger than FB. it's rampant in all areas of BigTech and chances are high many here are guilty for working on the destruction of society. See for example Stripe (an "innocent" payment processor) which processes payments for the Proud Boys: https://www.ourfreedomfunding.com/campaign/19/freespazzo-dominic-pezzola https://www.ourfreedomfunding.com/campaign/19/freespazzo-dom... https://www.ourfreedomfunding.com/campaign/23/financial-aid-for-ethan-nordean-rufio https://www.ourfreedomfunding.com/campaign/23/financial-aid-... See also Cloudflare which is happy to protect such sites as the one above (and has a history of doing so): https://www.fastcompany.com/90312063/how-cloudflare-straddles-its-role-as-privacy-champion-and-hate-speech-enabler https://www.fastcompany.com/90312063/how-cloudflare-straddle... The real problem comes from having a small highly paid and entitled circle of Tech people in the US be the arbiter of truth and social values worldwide.
  - headmelted 6y ago
    Your suggestion is fighting fascism with fascism, and it reads like maybe you don’t realise that? “BigTech needs to be fought like cancer”. When did we all agree to this?
DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
> Facebook needs to be shutdown as it poses an existential threat to democracy I really would welcome that but no way it will. 1) even if it were banned in many countries it would still survive in the US for Intel/NatSec reasons. 2) it's so ingrained in society that it's unthinkable that it could disappear. In many countries facebook _is_ the Internet and large parts of the economy and social fabric (as toxic and shitty as it is) depend on it. This has implications to 1) (e.g. NatSec) above, because 3) FB is part of the US propaganda[1] machine. Radio free Europe or VoA, etc dwarf in comparison of what US dominated BigTech does[2]. See also trending here recently [3] note especially the title changed from the original official title (presumably to be less inflammatory even though the original title made exactly that point and the new title does the bidding for the propagandists). FB is too big too fail in every sense. It is impossible to fight legally (or with illegal means it will survive like the stubborn parasite it is) [1] Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Attitudes by Jacques Ellul https://archive.org/details/Propaganda_201512 https://archive.org/details/Propaganda_201512 [2] https://thenextweb.com/distract/2020/12/21/how-netflix-shapes-mainstream-culture-explained-by-data/ https://thenextweb.com/distract/2020/12/21/how-netflix-shape... [3] How Netflix is creating a common European culture https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26696396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26696396
- disabled 6y ago
  This is very thoughtful. I do not know why people downvoted your comment. I personally despise Facebook and all of its services.
  - DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
    > I do not know why people downvoted your comment. reason why people call me out for my behavior is this: > I personally despise Facebook ^^ I do not agree with the mainstream view which is to hold companies liable for their actions. Instead my attitude (and I get why people have a hard time with it) is to direct my anger at the individuals hiding behind these big-corps. I'm making it personal because for me it is. We (humans in most "civilized" countries) made a huge mistake by allowing a company to be a "legal" person which gives people the ability to hide their ghoulish behavior behind the legal facade of a company. You can not win a fight as a person against a company (only in rare cases that don't matter much). As a legal person I can fund terror with shell/shelf companies and get away with paying 0% income tax (e.g. Netflix, Google and all other cancerous US companies registered in Ireland or Luxembourg) while as a natural person I get away scot-free. My solution to the problem is too radical for most as it calls out the Zuckerberg's, Eric Princes, Peter Thiel, Bezos, Musk, Koch, Trumps and hundreds of others. People here absolutely hate that and (in some cases rightfully) attack me because what I propose is against the law and probably violates my own code of human rights. If laws don't serve us we have to change them and in many cases this will not be possible without violence. I'm not saying I have a solution[1] for it but I also can't see how companies should continue to get away with destruction of society (and the environment). Until we start eating the rich (metaphorically) and they start fearing the rest of us (again) nothing will change. [1] my pov is constantly evolving and in many regards half baked, e.g. I also am deeply suspicious of more government power to solve these issues or any form of "seizing the means of production". and I think that technology (science) will even less be able to provide a cure for something that isn't a technological problem (see Jacques Ellul "The Technological Society"). again I absolutely need to stress that I have no solution either.
headmelted 6y ago
You’ve basically just described an Eternal September which pre-dates Facebook by about a decade. Taking away the platform doesn’t change the inherent nature of these people, who could easily educate themselves with actual facts if they chose to do so.
- gigatexal 6y ago
  Key is “if they chose to” do so. But to overcome one’s own ethnocentrism and cognitive biases is proving to be difficult.
  - headmelted 6y ago
    I agree, I just feel like it’s worth calling a spade a spade. People believe horrible falsehoods because they are simpler, more convenient and (critically) more exciting than taking the time to understand actual facts. That’s laziness, with victims.