5 ms·

You clearly are not an expert on autism. The disease is a huge spectrum of different behaviors, from almost normal, to severe retardation. I've seen RMS in real

You clearly are not an expert on autism. The disease is a huge spectrum of different behaviors, from almost normal, to severe retardation. I've seen RMS in real life, he's borderline can't take care of himself, that's not being abusive.

geofft 6y ago
I've met RMS in real life and talked to him on multiple occasions. He can absolutely take care of himself and it's a little insulting to RMS to say that he can't. (Who took care of him between when he left his job at MIT and when the FSF got enough funding to hire him an assistant, if he wasn't taking care of himself?)
- dkdk8283 6y ago
  Context is everything. It’s unfair to judge someone in such a harsh manner. Your anecdotal observations are just that: anecdotal observations. People with a manic depressive disorder can have both great highs and deep lows at different periods. We should be tolerant of everyone as much as we can.
- aortega 6y ago
  Not everyone is fine all of the time, and autistic personalities can get high and lows. To me, he seem quite normal and a cool guy that likes make totally inappropriate jokes or comments (that makes them even more funny), but I'm a little autistic myself.
  - watwut 6y ago
    > make totally inappropriate jokes or comments (that makes them even more funny) That is completely different if you are but of those jokes and if you know that those jokes are funny to people, because they express what others think about you.
- bodhiandphysics 6y ago
  Gerry Sussman mostly
enraged_camel 6y ago
RMS himself has rejected the suggestion that he is on the spectrum, so I’m not sure why you are casually suggesting that he is.
- skissane 6y ago
  As I've pointed out before [0], his "self-undiagnosis" appears to be based on misconceptions; given that, how much weight should we put on it? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26537802 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26537802
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    Stallman said he didn't have most of the characteristics of Asperger's. Rhythm was just an example.
    - skissane 6y ago
      If you read the comment I linked, I explained why I don't think that is relevant–you don't need to have problems with rhythm to meet the diagnostic criteria for Aspergers syndrome (or ASD under the current DSM-5). Stallman's comments reveal that he has a poor understanding of the diagnostic criteria (or at least he did when he made those comments, many years ago–he may have improved his understanding since), which is why I don't think one should put much weight on them.
      - pseudalopex 6y ago
        I read your comment already. You talked about part of what the journalist quoted like it was all Stallman said. He went on to say he has some of the characteristics. He described how they affected his life. He discussed a book about subclinical mental disorders by Harvard psychiatry professor John Ratey. He suggested he might have what's called broader autism phenotype now. The strongest plausible interpretation of what he said is he understood the distinction between clinical and subclinical presentations and the part about rhythm was incidental. It's clear he had some understanding at least. Insisting he must have thought rhythm was a diagnostic criterion and that completely invalidates his understanding is the weakest plausible interpretation at best.
eyelidlessness 6y ago
I didn’t claim to be an expert. He’s not abusive because he can’t take care of himself. He’s abusive because he’s mean spirited and takes advantage of being excused for it because of his celebrity. I was never afforded that. Take your expertise and shove it up someone who isn’t a nobody. Edit: I regret saying anything please carry on praising the guy who treats people like garbage because people enable him. I’ll just go back to doing my best to triangulate my emotional reactions with empathy so I can survive and have moderately healthy relationships.
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  Seems to me that Stillman has gone through an obsessive amount of effort to avoid having to change his boorish behavior. You and I would get fired for a lot less. I'm like, it's his hill he can die on it.
  - eyelidlessness 6y ago
    And apparently I’m supposed to be an expert in my own neirodivergence if I don’t excuse his behavior. Fuck that.
    - Gibbon1 6y ago
      Reminds me of anytime there is a infamous mass shooting the conversation turns to mentally ill people and what to do about them.
- antonvs 6y ago
  I think you're absolutely right about the enablement aspect. Stallman seems to have been protected from normal social feedback at least since starting at MIT as a graduate student in the 1970s. Most reasonably functioning autistic people seem able to improve their social skills, at least to some degree, as they mature, if only as a conscious act ("masking"). The bubble Stallman lived in seems to either have prevented him from doing that, or worse, possibly allowed him to willfully ignore such personal development. You see this unproductive coddling in the Perens article, which simply assumes Stallman's "handicap" is a fact of life over which he couldn't possibly have any conscious control. In my experience, that's rarely the case, unless you're dealing with much more severely handicapped individuals, who may not even be verbal.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
eyelidlessness 6y ago
A day later I’m still astonished that someone called me out, myself being a person who is autisc, for not being an expert. How dare you.

geofft 6y ago

I've met RMS in real life and talked to him on multiple occasions. He can absolutely take care of himself and it's a little insulting to RMS to say that he can't. (Who took care of him between when he left his job at MIT and when the FSF got enough funding to hire him an assistant, if he wasn't taking care of himself?)

dkdk8283 6y ago
Context is everything. It’s unfair to judge someone in such a harsh manner. Your anecdotal observations are just that: anecdotal observations. People with a manic depressive disorder can have both great highs and deep lows at different periods. We should be tolerant of everyone as much as we can.
aortega 6y ago
Not everyone is fine all of the time, and autistic personalities can get high and lows. To me, he seem quite normal and a cool guy that likes make totally inappropriate jokes or comments (that makes them even more funny), but I'm a little autistic myself.
- watwut 6y ago
  > make totally inappropriate jokes or comments (that makes them even more funny) That is completely different if you are but of those jokes and if you know that those jokes are funny to people, because they express what others think about you.
bodhiandphysics 6y ago
Gerry Sussman mostly

enraged_camel 6y ago

RMS himself has rejected the suggestion that he is on the spectrum, so I’m not sure why you are casually suggesting that he is.

skissane 6y ago
As I've pointed out before [0], his "self-undiagnosis" appears to be based on misconceptions; given that, how much weight should we put on it? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26537802 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26537802
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  Stallman said he didn't have most of the characteristics of Asperger's. Rhythm was just an example.
  - skissane 6y ago
    If you read the comment I linked, I explained why I don't think that is relevant–you don't need to have problems with rhythm to meet the diagnostic criteria for Aspergers syndrome (or ASD under the current DSM-5). Stallman's comments reveal that he has a poor understanding of the diagnostic criteria (or at least he did when he made those comments, many years ago–he may have improved his understanding since), which is why I don't think one should put much weight on them.
    - pseudalopex 6y ago
      I read your comment already. You talked about part of what the journalist quoted like it was all Stallman said. He went on to say he has some of the characteristics. He described how they affected his life. He discussed a book about subclinical mental disorders by Harvard psychiatry professor John Ratey. He suggested he might have what's called broader autism phenotype now. The strongest plausible interpretation of what he said is he understood the distinction between clinical and subclinical presentations and the part about rhythm was incidental. It's clear he had some understanding at least. Insisting he must have thought rhythm was a diagnostic criterion and that completely invalidates his understanding is the weakest plausible interpretation at best.

eyelidlessness 6y ago

I didn’t claim to be an expert. He’s not abusive because he can’t take care of himself. He’s abusive because he’s mean spirited and takes advantage of being excused for it because of his celebrity. I was never afforded that. Take your expertise and shove it up someone who isn’t a nobody. Edit: I regret saying anything please carry on praising the guy who treats people like garbage because people enable him. I’ll just go back to doing my best to triangulate my emotional reactions with empathy so I can survive and have moderately healthy relationships.

Gibbon1 6y ago
Seems to me that Stillman has gone through an obsessive amount of effort to avoid having to change his boorish behavior. You and I would get fired for a lot less. I'm like, it's his hill he can die on it.
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  And apparently I’m supposed to be an expert in my own neirodivergence if I don’t excuse his behavior. Fuck that.
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    Reminds me of anytime there is a infamous mass shooting the conversation turns to mentally ill people and what to do about them.
antonvs 6y ago
I think you're absolutely right about the enablement aspect. Stallman seems to have been protected from normal social feedback at least since starting at MIT as a graduate student in the 1970s. Most reasonably functioning autistic people seem able to improve their social skills, at least to some degree, as they mature, if only as a conscious act ("masking"). The bubble Stallman lived in seems to either have prevented him from doing that, or worse, possibly allowed him to willfully ignore such personal development. You see this unproductive coddling in the Perens article, which simply assumes Stallman's "handicap" is a fact of life over which he couldn't possibly have any conscious control. In my experience, that's rarely the case, unless you're dealing with much more severely handicapped individuals, who may not even be verbal.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

eyelidlessness 6y ago

A day later I’m still astonished that someone called me out, myself being a person who is autisc, for not being an expert. How dare you.