4 ms·

Not attacking you, but that line of defense would play a lot better if they didn't allow any discussion of the FSF board or Stallman at all. They have, however,

Not attacking you, but that line of defense would play a lot better if they didn't allow any discussion of the FSF board or Stallman at all. They have, however, allowed other strong opinions on the site before. It just feels.. eh.

dang 6y ago
There's no problem with FSF or Stallman being discussed on HN. All that is on topic in principle. What's not on topic is endless repetition of a same-old flamewar. When there's a major ongoing topic, one important test is whether there's SNI (Significant New Information) in a submission—or just a follow-up that's continuing the same discussion. If there's no SNI, chances are high that the discussion will be a repeat, and when the topic is highly polarized, you'll get a repeat of the same flamewar. That's what we really don't want here, so we downweight such follow-ups. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22significant%20new%20information%22%20by%3Adang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=follow-up%20by%3Adang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20repetition%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... These principles are well-established on HN and have nothing specifically to do with Stallman, let alone whatever opinions the mods have or don't have. You'll see the same patterns about any major ongoing topic that's highly divisive. Assange stories, for example, are pretty much an exact parallel. Your comment suggests you may feel like there's a bias in which opinions are being "allowed" - that's not the case. See my explanation above: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26713636 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26713636. It's all too easy to feel like the local authorities are biased against your view, but that perception is in the eye of the beholder—i.e. it's rooted in cognitive biases, such as the one where people notice the cases they dislike and overlook the others (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20notice%20dislike&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...).
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
  Do you apply this rule evenly? Do you think that some topics are more trouble than they are worth? Some example topics being US/China geopolitics or the story about "men clamming up" around women. Fruitful discussion can be made in both of these but it very often is not.
  - dang 6y ago
    We do our best to apply it evenly. > Do you think that some topics are more trouble than they are worth? This is too generic a question to answer meaningfully. Probably, but it's more a question of whether a given submission is intellectually interesting and capable of supporting a substantive discussion. > Some example topics being US/China geopolitics or the story about "men clamming up" around women. You're conflating two different categories there. One (US/China geopolitics) is one of the most common flamewar topics that gets posted to HN, with discussions getting asymptotically worse, past the point where it's not clear that the forum can handle it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26652363 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26652363 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26643703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26643703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26637365 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26637365 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26630159 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26630159 The other was a specific article (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26612918 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26612918) on a specific topic that really hasn't had much attention. I spent the better part of a day moderating the latter. I don't know if that answers your question or not but from my perspective it's the same principles being applied in all cases. One important thing to realize is that we're trying to optimize HN for just one thing, which is curiosity: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20optimiz%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor.... A lot of moderation calls that might seem weird or inconsistent make a lot of sense once you understand the chain of derivation from that rule.

dang 6y ago

There's no problem with FSF or Stallman being discussed on HN. All that is on topic in principle. What's not on topic is endless repetition of a same-old flamewar. When there's a major ongoing topic, one important test is whether there's SNI (Significant New Information) in a submission—or just a follow-up that's continuing the same discussion. If there's no SNI, chances are high that the discussion will be a repeat, and when the topic is highly polarized, you'll get a repeat of the same flamewar. That's what we really don't want here, so we downweight such follow-ups. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22significant%20new%20information%22%20by%3Adang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=follow-up%20by%3Adang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20repetition%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... These principles are well-established on HN and have nothing specifically to do with Stallman, let alone whatever opinions the mods have or don't have. You'll see the same patterns about any major ongoing topic that's highly divisive. Assange stories, for example, are pretty much an exact parallel. Your comment suggests you may feel like there's a bias in which opinions are being "allowed" - that's not the case. See my explanation above: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26713636 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26713636. It's all too easy to feel like the local authorities are biased against your view, but that perception is in the eye of the beholder—i.e. it's rooted in cognitive biases, such as the one where people notice the cases they dislike and overlook the others (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20notice%20dislike&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...).

2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
Do you apply this rule evenly? Do you think that some topics are more trouble than they are worth? Some example topics being US/China geopolitics or the story about "men clamming up" around women. Fruitful discussion can be made in both of these but it very often is not.
- dang 6y ago
  We do our best to apply it evenly. > Do you think that some topics are more trouble than they are worth? This is too generic a question to answer meaningfully. Probably, but it's more a question of whether a given submission is intellectually interesting and capable of supporting a substantive discussion. > Some example topics being US/China geopolitics or the story about "men clamming up" around women. You're conflating two different categories there. One (US/China geopolitics) is one of the most common flamewar topics that gets posted to HN, with discussions getting asymptotically worse, past the point where it's not clear that the forum can handle it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26652363 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26652363 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26643703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26643703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26637365 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26637365 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26630159 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26630159 The other was a specific article (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26612918 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26612918) on a specific topic that really hasn't had much attention. I spent the better part of a day moderating the latter. I don't know if that answers your question or not but from my perspective it's the same principles being applied in all cases. One important thing to realize is that we're trying to optimize HN for just one thing, which is curiosity: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20optimiz%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor.... A lot of moderation calls that might seem weird or inconsistent make a lot of sense once you understand the chain of derivation from that rule.