4 ms·

Navigating Silicon Valley as a Female Founder

35 points by apsec112 6y ago

toomuchredbull 6y ago
Do people expect that writing these sorts of screeds wins them sympathy? I would avoid such a person like the plague. You know they are always going to insert sexism into any interaction you have with them
- throwhelp41890 6y ago
  https://www.elephantinthevalley.com/ https://www.elephantinthevalley.com/ (2015)
  - fatnoah 6y ago
    The struggle is real. I've had the fairly unique experience of being an executive (VP Eng) of a 50 person software startup where I was the only man on the executive team (CEO, COO, and CFO were women) for a period of several months, and where the male to female ratio on the exec team never skewed to a male majority. Despite the CEO and COO being strong and supremely capable (COO in particular was a tremendous mentor to me) industry veterans, questions were often directed to me that would have been more appropriate for them to answer, or the makeup of the team would be treated as a bit of a novelty or curiosity. On the positive side, having strong female representation in the management group did wonders for recruiting, and through no particular plan or design, I ended up with the most diverse Engineering org I've ever been a part of. Lack of bro culture and clear demonstration that there was no glass ceiling were huge weapons in the hiring arsenal.
- core-questions 6y ago
  It wins them virtue-signalling points in the crowd who already agree with them.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- meepmorp 6y ago
  I think as long as there are men who dismiss whatever they have to say about sexism, women will keep writing, “these sorts of screeds.” If you want it to stop, do something beside whinge about women calling attention to the problem.
- websites2323 6y ago
  Where in the linked article did you see a call to sympathy? If it doesn’t resonate, could it be that you’re not the target audience because you’re not a founder?
- renewiltord 6y ago
  I read the article and did not find it a screed. It didn't really complain or anything. And it provided concrete action items that aren't "society hates you" but more "this is what this place expects; play to the expectations" which sounds smart. Honestly, if anyone read the parent comment and concluded that this is one of those "Everyone hates me because I'm a woman" things (which do exist) then you've been misinformed. Article is also useful to men, in my opinion, and not as "ally" or "social justice companion" or whatever but just for you to know how things are laid out in SV so that you too can play to the right expectations. First paragraph, for instance, is not a gender divide. Paragraph about Elizabeth Holmes is also a pointer that people pattern match a lot based on superficial characteristics and that it might help your success to be aware of and either mitigate or play to those characteristics. That's not gender-based either.
- karpierz 6y ago
  I don't think a survival guide is meant to elicit sympathy, it's just supposed to provide practical advice for people in similar circumstances. If someone wrote a personal guide on how to survive if you're bitten by a snake, my first thought wouldn't be "man, they must really be looking for sympathy."
- MathYouF 6y ago
  Seemed like a normal and reasonable guide. Do you really posit that absolutely no men are sexist to them? I'm sure you'd agree there much be some. So then what ought they do about it to defend themselves and have a career they want? That's exactly what this guide is. Its target audience is clearly other women, that's the style it's written in. So why do you feel this is a ploy for sympathy? You should see if any specific criticisms you can supply from reading the article would hold up to analysis, I'm open minded enough to hear them if you want to give it a try.
  - xiphias2 6y ago
    It's hard for me to take even the tweet seriously (working a few years in Palanteer guaranteeing an investment just because somebody is a male...also what are those already profitable companies that don't get investment? If VCs are so blind not to invest in great already profitable companies, bring those examples to HN). Bring data to the table if you have those extreme statements.
    - MathYouF 6y ago
      Fair point, the tweet wasn't quantitatively backed up. Interestingly the title above said "The standards for you are higher." and yet her paragraphs after that don't revisit that idea, but rather make the point that they ought to adopt a conversational style related to their background that compensates for what they say is a common flaw with women pitching (modesty about accomplishments). Which I think is a fair bit of advice to give anyone entering the valley, to have a pitch explaining why you're great to others.
      - xiphias2 6y ago
        I believe that there's a strong bias, and women have to jump though it (as a man I feel strong sexual bias in my dating life, and do my best to accept it and jump through those hoops). But exaggerations can lead to hating the other sex, which is always detrimental to the end result. The tips themselves were great, it's just important for the author to stay professional.
- exogeny 6y ago
  She has to write things like what she wrote because of things like what you just wrote.
- mustafa_pasi 6y ago
  When I checked her bio, the first thing that I thought was, "damn this person is extremely privileged". Are these kinds of people just completely blind to just how privileged they are compared to normal folk?
  - karpierz 6y ago
    And for all of that privilege, she still has to navigate the disadvantage of being a female founder.
wrnr 6y ago
Girl why waste your time on what other think while you could have told me how your would prolong a dogs life and when you think to migrate to the human market.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  Well, presumably because the latter gets the author an upvote from you on HN and the former gets her funding in SV. That upvote is worth nothing and that funding is worth a lot. In fact, considering that Loyal was posted on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26546291 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26546291 and received no upvotes it looks like the choice is between 3 upvotes, 0 funding and 0 upvotes, >$0 funding and so she's made the right choice.
  - wrnr 6y ago
    Why not both? That is just good marketing, get peoples attention with a low gut blouse and then BAM hit them with how you are growing stem cells from mucus
    - renewiltord 6y ago
      In this case, I would assume the reason is that the author isn't writing this piece as content marketing but on her blog as something she'd like to share. And it's quite possible that she anticipated poor conversions on the post to the startup from direct reference and would rather not have the post perceived as content marketing than to dilute it to receive poor returns. Either way, this person seems pretty smart. Content marketing has been around for ages and most people know how to do it so this thread comes off a little like the "nice trigger discipline" comments on Reddit whenever some professional soldier is photographed.
swordsmith 6y ago
> Here are the most common traits: apathetic, very logical, quantitative and concise sentences, fast-speaking, use and identify their models in their speech, a dash of academic prose, direct eye contact, infallible confidence. Oh man I hate this type of speech pattern. Everyone speaking a million miles per hour to try to show how quickly they think, but takes the same amount of total time to convey the same amount of information if they slowed down and used better constructed sentences.
howmayiannoyyou 6y ago
It's 100x worse if you are over the age of 45 regardless of gender. You can be profitable and growing and your grey hairs will turn off the majority of VC's. Agism is so accepted there's not even lip service paid to combatting it as there often is with founders of color or female founders.
- xiphias2 6y ago
  If you're over 45 and really smart, you should already have great connections and/or capital built up using your personal investments. Actually what I realized when I was 30, is that at that point the only way I was able to get an interview was through my connections...through my ex collegaues I could get an interview with any company I wanted to in 1 day though (I just didn't try that first).
  - tomkr000 6y ago
    You’re confusing getting a job at a company with starting a company w vc funding.
cle 6y ago
This is solid advice. VCs are just as susceptible to the same biases as everyone else. Learning to navigate that minefield is unfortunately part of the massive extra effort it takes to start a SV company as a woman. My minority wife has raised millions in the past couple of years for her company. The struggle is real. It's hard for underrepresented cohorts to trust VCs, because it can be hard to tell if their motivation is genuine. Are they just interested in you as a way to improve their diversity metrics? Do they actually believe in your company and will they be able to provide valuable guidance and feedback? The investors who are looking for diversity points have tended to be net-negative contributors to her company. The social dynamics are much more complicated for her than they are for me. She and other women and minorities who deal with SV culture are badasses for having the grit to deal with it. I also want to say that I don't really blame SV for this culture either. This isn't unique to SV, it's just human nature. Any founders coming from socio-economic backgrounds that are different from those of their investors will face this problem. The best thing that VCs can do to combat this isn't necessarily to invest more money in women and minorities. That's easy, and without changing the dynamic it's sometimes not even helpful. IMO, you can make more of an impact by looking around--work on diversifying the socio-economic backgrounds of your GPs and LPs.
nitwit005 6y ago
She has another, rather dark, post where she concludes that she wouldn't have succeeded without being harassed by someone at university, and that she's on her own: https://www.celinehh.com/gifts-of-my-harasser https://www.celinehh.com/gifts-of-my-harasser

35 points by apsec112 6y ago

Do people expect that writing these sorts of screeds wins them sympathy? I would avoid such a person like the plague. You know they are always going to insert sexism into any interaction you have with them

throwhelp41890 6y ago
https://www.elephantinthevalley.com/ https://www.elephantinthevalley.com/ (2015)
- fatnoah 6y ago
  The struggle is real. I've had the fairly unique experience of being an executive (VP Eng) of a 50 person software startup where I was the only man on the executive team (CEO, COO, and CFO were women) for a period of several months, and where the male to female ratio on the exec team never skewed to a male majority. Despite the CEO and COO being strong and supremely capable (COO in particular was a tremendous mentor to me) industry veterans, questions were often directed to me that would have been more appropriate for them to answer, or the makeup of the team would be treated as a bit of a novelty or curiosity. On the positive side, having strong female representation in the management group did wonders for recruiting, and through no particular plan or design, I ended up with the most diverse Engineering org I've ever been a part of. Lack of bro culture and clear demonstration that there was no glass ceiling were huge weapons in the hiring arsenal.
core-questions 6y ago
It wins them virtue-signalling points in the crowd who already agree with them.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
meepmorp 6y ago
I think as long as there are men who dismiss whatever they have to say about sexism, women will keep writing, “these sorts of screeds.” If you want it to stop, do something beside whinge about women calling attention to the problem.
websites2323 6y ago
Where in the linked article did you see a call to sympathy? If it doesn’t resonate, could it be that you’re not the target audience because you’re not a founder?
renewiltord 6y ago
I read the article and did not find it a screed. It didn't really complain or anything. And it provided concrete action items that aren't "society hates you" but more "this is what this place expects; play to the expectations" which sounds smart. Honestly, if anyone read the parent comment and concluded that this is one of those "Everyone hates me because I'm a woman" things (which do exist) then you've been misinformed. Article is also useful to men, in my opinion, and not as "ally" or "social justice companion" or whatever but just for you to know how things are laid out in SV so that you too can play to the right expectations. First paragraph, for instance, is not a gender divide. Paragraph about Elizabeth Holmes is also a pointer that people pattern match a lot based on superficial characteristics and that it might help your success to be aware of and either mitigate or play to those characteristics. That's not gender-based either.
karpierz 6y ago
I don't think a survival guide is meant to elicit sympathy, it's just supposed to provide practical advice for people in similar circumstances. If someone wrote a personal guide on how to survive if you're bitten by a snake, my first thought wouldn't be "man, they must really be looking for sympathy."
MathYouF 6y ago
Seemed like a normal and reasonable guide. Do you really posit that absolutely no men are sexist to them? I'm sure you'd agree there much be some. So then what ought they do about it to defend themselves and have a career they want? That's exactly what this guide is. Its target audience is clearly other women, that's the style it's written in. So why do you feel this is a ploy for sympathy? You should see if any specific criticisms you can supply from reading the article would hold up to analysis, I'm open minded enough to hear them if you want to give it a try.
- xiphias2 6y ago
  It's hard for me to take even the tweet seriously (working a few years in Palanteer guaranteeing an investment just because somebody is a male...also what are those already profitable companies that don't get investment? If VCs are so blind not to invest in great already profitable companies, bring those examples to HN). Bring data to the table if you have those extreme statements.
  - MathYouF 6y ago
    Fair point, the tweet wasn't quantitatively backed up. Interestingly the title above said "The standards for you are higher." and yet her paragraphs after that don't revisit that idea, but rather make the point that they ought to adopt a conversational style related to their background that compensates for what they say is a common flaw with women pitching (modesty about accomplishments). Which I think is a fair bit of advice to give anyone entering the valley, to have a pitch explaining why you're great to others.
    - xiphias2 6y ago
      I believe that there's a strong bias, and women have to jump though it (as a man I feel strong sexual bias in my dating life, and do my best to accept it and jump through those hoops). But exaggerations can lead to hating the other sex, which is always detrimental to the end result. The tips themselves were great, it's just important for the author to stay professional.
exogeny 6y ago
She has to write things like what she wrote because of things like what you just wrote.
mustafa_pasi 6y ago
When I checked her bio, the first thing that I thought was, "damn this person is extremely privileged". Are these kinds of people just completely blind to just how privileged they are compared to normal folk?
- karpierz 6y ago
  And for all of that privilege, she still has to navigate the disadvantage of being a female founder.

wrnr 6y ago

Girl why waste your time on what other think while you could have told me how your would prolong a dogs life and when you think to migrate to the human market.

renewiltord 6y ago
Well, presumably because the latter gets the author an upvote from you on HN and the former gets her funding in SV. That upvote is worth nothing and that funding is worth a lot. In fact, considering that Loyal was posted on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26546291 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26546291 and received no upvotes it looks like the choice is between 3 upvotes, 0 funding and 0 upvotes, >$0 funding and so she's made the right choice.
- wrnr 6y ago
  Why not both? That is just good marketing, get peoples attention with a low gut blouse and then BAM hit them with how you are growing stem cells from mucus
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    In this case, I would assume the reason is that the author isn't writing this piece as content marketing but on her blog as something she'd like to share. And it's quite possible that she anticipated poor conversions on the post to the startup from direct reference and would rather not have the post perceived as content marketing than to dilute it to receive poor returns. Either way, this person seems pretty smart. Content marketing has been around for ages and most people know how to do it so this thread comes off a little like the "nice trigger discipline" comments on Reddit whenever some professional soldier is photographed.

swordsmith 6y ago

> Here are the most common traits: apathetic, very logical, quantitative and concise sentences, fast-speaking, use and identify their models in their speech, a dash of academic prose, direct eye contact, infallible confidence. Oh man I hate this type of speech pattern. Everyone speaking a million miles per hour to try to show how quickly they think, but takes the same amount of total time to convey the same amount of information if they slowed down and used better constructed sentences.

howmayiannoyyou 6y ago

It's 100x worse if you are over the age of 45 regardless of gender. You can be profitable and growing and your grey hairs will turn off the majority of VC's. Agism is so accepted there's not even lip service paid to combatting it as there often is with founders of color or female founders.

xiphias2 6y ago
If you're over 45 and really smart, you should already have great connections and/or capital built up using your personal investments. Actually what I realized when I was 30, is that at that point the only way I was able to get an interview was through my connections...through my ex collegaues I could get an interview with any company I wanted to in 1 day though (I just didn't try that first).
- tomkr000 6y ago
  You’re confusing getting a job at a company with starting a company w vc funding.

cle 6y ago

This is solid advice. VCs are just as susceptible to the same biases as everyone else. Learning to navigate that minefield is unfortunately part of the massive extra effort it takes to start a SV company as a woman. My minority wife has raised millions in the past couple of years for her company. The struggle is real. It's hard for underrepresented cohorts to trust VCs, because it can be hard to tell if their motivation is genuine. Are they just interested in you as a way to improve their diversity metrics? Do they actually believe in your company and will they be able to provide valuable guidance and feedback? The investors who are looking for diversity points have tended to be net-negative contributors to her company. The social dynamics are much more complicated for her than they are for me. She and other women and minorities who deal with SV culture are badasses for having the grit to deal with it. I also want to say that I don't really blame SV for this culture either. This isn't unique to SV, it's just human nature. Any founders coming from socio-economic backgrounds that are different from those of their investors will face this problem. The best thing that VCs can do to combat this isn't necessarily to invest more money in women and minorities. That's easy, and without changing the dynamic it's sometimes not even helpful. IMO, you can make more of an impact by looking around--work on diversifying the socio-economic backgrounds of your GPs and LPs.

nitwit005 6y ago

She has another, rather dark, post where she concludes that she wouldn't have succeeded without being harassed by someone at university, and that she's on her own: https://www.celinehh.com/gifts-of-my-harasser https://www.celinehh.com/gifts-of-my-harasser