6 ms·

If you're considering taking drugs for ADHD or giving them to your child, I highly recommend reading into Fen-Phen (1) and other popular, contested drugs. Fen-P

If you're considering taking drugs for ADHD or giving them to your child, I highly recommend reading into Fen-Phen (1) and other popular, contested drugs. Fen-Phen was a drug marketed to housewives in the 70s that promised weight loss and increased energy. My grandma suffered heart issues later in life due to it. It's since had 13B in settlements brought against it. Purdue Pharma will likely see 10B+ in settlements brought against them in the coming years for their hand in marketing Oxycontin as non-addictive. On the topic of Ritalin and Adderall, lots of my friends found they had to increase their dosage to see consistent effects. Some talk about abusing alcohol to get to sleep. All have told me interesting stories about being able to "feel" their heartbeat in odd ways while using (or over using) it. I'd be surprised if both drugs don't see significant settlements related to heart issues, alcohol dependence, or something else in the not too distant future. ADHD exists. Period. Also, US history has a bend toward over medicalization and over prescription. I think it's important to learn about this and weigh it when using any prescription drug, but especially highly addictive ones, for extended periods of time. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenfluramine/phentermine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenfluramine/phentermine

geoduck14 6y ago
I've been on Adderall for almost 30 years, and I'm not seeing any heart issues.
- Kirth 6y ago
  Hi! I'm glad you're doing well on your medication. Can I ask, what have you done to make any possible issues visible? I've heard a few scary stories from people about long-term adderall usage weakening their heart muscle but they are/were not particularly healthy individuals
  - lfowles 6y ago
    I'm not sure how treatment plans vary, but I'm required to have medication checkups with a doctor every 3 months and a yearly EKG & blood panel.
  - geoduck14 6y ago
    Well.... I'm not dead (yet). I have monthly check ups. They take my pulse, blood pressure, and weight. I've noticed improvements when I changed my diet (the nurse said "wow" when she checked my pressure). I had an EKG 10 years ago, when I switched to this Dr. I have an (almost) annual physical. I'm not really sure which of those is enough to give you comfort - more than anything, I wanted to give a counter story to the "scary stories"
eyelidlessness 6y ago
Increasing dosage to feel consistent management is normal for ADHD patients. The goal is to reach the highest dosage that doesn’t cause side effects. This is where we actually get consistent relief from some of our symptoms. The reality about ADHD and self medication and substance abuse is that it’s untreated patients who experience it the worst. If your friends who’ve talked about this with you are anything like me, they learned to develop a reliance on alcohol to sleep before they were treated. If they developed that after, it’s definitely possible they’re overprescribed. But it’s also a sign they’re indulging on both and probably have an underlying substance abuse problem. A healthy response to ADHD medication is generally to use as much medication as needed and not want more. I’m currently prescribed an as-needed boost in the evening if my daytime med wearing off causes too much anxiety. I’ve only needed it three times in two weeks, and when I took it today it was a relief, but it was also a relief to recognize how little I’ve needed it. Those of us who benefit from these drugs aren’t constantly trying to get more. We’re just trying to get help from our doctors to feel normal.
- runawaybottle 6y ago
  What you may not believe is that you are no longer in control of wanting to get more. That’s the reality of a drug. Anyway, have the paranoid episodes hit you yet? Give it some time, I see the anxiety is already consistent. Just be sure to manage your drug holidays and control tolerance.
  - drewbug01 6y ago
    > What you may not believe is that you are no longer in control of wanting to get more. That’s the reality of a drug. Here (and in other comments since last night) you've made a lot of comments like this one. You're essentially telling everyone taking ADHD medication that they're budding druggies and need to get off the train before it's too late. That's your experience. And it flies in the face of what many, many people here are describing. You've made your point repeatedly, over and over. Would you mind letting the rest of us discuss it in peace without telling us that we are borderline addicts? Your comments are not helpful or substantive; they're just divisive and mean at this point.
sudosysgen 6y ago
Statistically, if you are diagnosed with ADHD, treatment actually significantly increases your life expectancy.
- ralusek 6y ago
  If I'm understanding this correctly, are you saying that untreated ADHD is more likely to result in suicide?
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    No, not suicide. Alcoholism, addiction to other drugs, car crashes, etc... Are all much more likely for untreated ADHD patients.
    - curioussavage 6y ago
      Yeah for real. I’m lucky I survived 3 car wrecks and that I’m not diabetic after years of compulsively consuming sugar to stimulate my brain. All got way better after I started being treated.
      - LocalH 6y ago
        I quit soda two months ago after a meaningful mushroom experience.
  - kolinko 6y ago
    Suicide, obesity, substance addiction, even incarceration.
Centigonal 6y ago
You make some good points here, but it's important to avoid the false dichotomy that medication is either good for everyone or always scary and dangerous. Stimulants for ADHD have a long history of use (Ritalin's been approved for medical use since 1955!), and there's lots of scientific literature indicating it can have a variety of long-term benefits for people with ADHD. That said, no two people are the same, and there is no one-size-fits-all approach to treatment. I've met someone who takes monstrous 70+mg doses of vyvanse (essentially extended release dex-amphetamine) to function normally, has been stable that way for years, and is happily pursuing an impressive, productive life. Conversely, I've met people who can't take 5mg of instant release dex-amphetamine and get to bed 14 hours later. Obviously, there is the risk of heretofor-unknown side effects with some of the newer drugs. We also cannot forget about known side effects of well-studied drugs: Atomoxetine, for example, can cause suicidal ideation as a side effect. That being said, if Ritalin and Adderall were going to lead to massive settlements because of side effects, I think we would have already seen that happen in the last 65 years.
- droopyEyelids 6y ago
  You're confused on some basic science. Lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse) is a lysine molecule bonded to a Dexedrine molecule. An equivalent dose of Lisdexamfetamine weighs twice as much (263.38 g/mol) as dextroamphetamine (135.21 g/mol) Additionally, the body needs to digest the lysine before the dexedrine can cross the blood brain barrier. That slows down absorption, and means an equivalent dose has a lower peak concentration in the body, too. So your 'monstrous' 70mg Vyvanse example is actually 35mg of amphetamine, dosed over several hours. anyway, your point stands! only wanted to offer so pointers on your supporting info. If you want to talk about monstrous doses, look into "Mydayis"
  - Centigonal 6y ago
    I appreciate the correction!
astrange 6y ago
> On the topic of Ritalin and Adderall, lots of my friends found they had to increase their dosage to see consistent effects. They are not addictive at normal doses but there can be tolerance depending on your diet. This is actually pretty easy to treat - get a lot more magnesium and try NAC as well. (Vyvanse's effectiveness actually seriously depends on how acidic your diet is. If you take a dose with orange juice it may be completely inactivated.) > Some talk about abusing alcohol to get to sleep. Sleep issues (delayed sleep phase disorder) are themselves an ADHD symptom. If you time it right so the stimulant wears off at bedtime this can actually help you - but if it wears off early, I don't have the willpower left to go to bed.
- herbst 6y ago
  By the same logic cocaine in small doses would not be addictive. I can tell you that everything that manipulates your dopamin levels can lead to some kind of addiction. Plus you have actual withdraw symptoms from amphetamines too.
  - astrange 6y ago
    Cocaine isn't a prescription drug. Adderall/Vyvanse aren't addictive at the prescribed doses, it's not really relevant what happens if you just start snorting it. > Plus you have actual withdraw symptoms from amphetamines too. Easily managed and known to last about a week. The non-stimulant ADHD medications like guanfacine actually have much worse withdrawal!
  - lfowles 6y ago
    It's so weird to keep hearing that prescription doses of these drugs are addictive. I regularly forget to take them until it's too late in the day and if I took them I would have trouble sleeping... :/
    - daniel-cussen 6y ago
      One way to check if you took it, is to choose a song with a strong beat that you've heard thousands of times, for reference. If you took your stimulants that day, the tempo should sound slower than if you didn't.

geoduck14 6y ago

I've been on Adderall for almost 30 years, and I'm not seeing any heart issues.

Kirth 6y ago
Hi! I'm glad you're doing well on your medication. Can I ask, what have you done to make any possible issues visible? I've heard a few scary stories from people about long-term adderall usage weakening their heart muscle but they are/were not particularly healthy individuals
- lfowles 6y ago
  I'm not sure how treatment plans vary, but I'm required to have medication checkups with a doctor every 3 months and a yearly EKG & blood panel.
- geoduck14 6y ago
  Well.... I'm not dead (yet). I have monthly check ups. They take my pulse, blood pressure, and weight. I've noticed improvements when I changed my diet (the nurse said "wow" when she checked my pressure). I had an EKG 10 years ago, when I switched to this Dr. I have an (almost) annual physical. I'm not really sure which of those is enough to give you comfort - more than anything, I wanted to give a counter story to the "scary stories"

eyelidlessness 6y ago

Increasing dosage to feel consistent management is normal for ADHD patients. The goal is to reach the highest dosage that doesn’t cause side effects. This is where we actually get consistent relief from some of our symptoms. The reality about ADHD and self medication and substance abuse is that it’s untreated patients who experience it the worst. If your friends who’ve talked about this with you are anything like me, they learned to develop a reliance on alcohol to sleep before they were treated. If they developed that after, it’s definitely possible they’re overprescribed. But it’s also a sign they’re indulging on both and probably have an underlying substance abuse problem. A healthy response to ADHD medication is generally to use as much medication as needed and not want more. I’m currently prescribed an as-needed boost in the evening if my daytime med wearing off causes too much anxiety. I’ve only needed it three times in two weeks, and when I took it today it was a relief, but it was also a relief to recognize how little I’ve needed it. Those of us who benefit from these drugs aren’t constantly trying to get more. We’re just trying to get help from our doctors to feel normal.

runawaybottle 6y ago
What you may not believe is that you are no longer in control of wanting to get more. That’s the reality of a drug. Anyway, have the paranoid episodes hit you yet? Give it some time, I see the anxiety is already consistent. Just be sure to manage your drug holidays and control tolerance.
- drewbug01 6y ago
  > What you may not believe is that you are no longer in control of wanting to get more. That’s the reality of a drug. Here (and in other comments since last night) you've made a lot of comments like this one. You're essentially telling everyone taking ADHD medication that they're budding druggies and need to get off the train before it's too late. That's your experience. And it flies in the face of what many, many people here are describing. You've made your point repeatedly, over and over. Would you mind letting the rest of us discuss it in peace without telling us that we are borderline addicts? Your comments are not helpful or substantive; they're just divisive and mean at this point.

sudosysgen 6y ago

Statistically, if you are diagnosed with ADHD, treatment actually significantly increases your life expectancy.

ralusek 6y ago
If I'm understanding this correctly, are you saying that untreated ADHD is more likely to result in suicide?
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  No, not suicide. Alcoholism, addiction to other drugs, car crashes, etc... Are all much more likely for untreated ADHD patients.
  - curioussavage 6y ago
    Yeah for real. I’m lucky I survived 3 car wrecks and that I’m not diabetic after years of compulsively consuming sugar to stimulate my brain. All got way better after I started being treated.
    - LocalH 6y ago
      I quit soda two months ago after a meaningful mushroom experience.
- kolinko 6y ago
  Suicide, obesity, substance addiction, even incarceration.

Centigonal 6y ago

You make some good points here, but it's important to avoid the false dichotomy that medication is either good for everyone or always scary and dangerous. Stimulants for ADHD have a long history of use (Ritalin's been approved for medical use since 1955!), and there's lots of scientific literature indicating it can have a variety of long-term benefits for people with ADHD. That said, no two people are the same, and there is no one-size-fits-all approach to treatment. I've met someone who takes monstrous 70+mg doses of vyvanse (essentially extended release dex-amphetamine) to function normally, has been stable that way for years, and is happily pursuing an impressive, productive life. Conversely, I've met people who can't take 5mg of instant release dex-amphetamine and get to bed 14 hours later. Obviously, there is the risk of heretofor-unknown side effects with some of the newer drugs. We also cannot forget about known side effects of well-studied drugs: Atomoxetine, for example, can cause suicidal ideation as a side effect. That being said, if Ritalin and Adderall were going to lead to massive settlements because of side effects, I think we would have already seen that happen in the last 65 years.

droopyEyelids 6y ago
You're confused on some basic science. Lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse) is a lysine molecule bonded to a Dexedrine molecule. An equivalent dose of Lisdexamfetamine weighs twice as much (263.38 g/mol) as dextroamphetamine (135.21 g/mol) Additionally, the body needs to digest the lysine before the dexedrine can cross the blood brain barrier. That slows down absorption, and means an equivalent dose has a lower peak concentration in the body, too. So your 'monstrous' 70mg Vyvanse example is actually 35mg of amphetamine, dosed over several hours. anyway, your point stands! only wanted to offer so pointers on your supporting info. If you want to talk about monstrous doses, look into "Mydayis"
- Centigonal 6y ago
  I appreciate the correction!

astrange 6y ago

> On the topic of Ritalin and Adderall, lots of my friends found they had to increase their dosage to see consistent effects. They are not addictive at normal doses but there can be tolerance depending on your diet. This is actually pretty easy to treat - get a lot more magnesium and try NAC as well. (Vyvanse's effectiveness actually seriously depends on how acidic your diet is. If you take a dose with orange juice it may be completely inactivated.) > Some talk about abusing alcohol to get to sleep. Sleep issues (delayed sleep phase disorder) are themselves an ADHD symptom. If you time it right so the stimulant wears off at bedtime this can actually help you - but if it wears off early, I don't have the willpower left to go to bed.

herbst 6y ago
By the same logic cocaine in small doses would not be addictive. I can tell you that everything that manipulates your dopamin levels can lead to some kind of addiction. Plus you have actual withdraw symptoms from amphetamines too.
- astrange 6y ago
  Cocaine isn't a prescription drug. Adderall/Vyvanse aren't addictive at the prescribed doses, it's not really relevant what happens if you just start snorting it. > Plus you have actual withdraw symptoms from amphetamines too. Easily managed and known to last about a week. The non-stimulant ADHD medications like guanfacine actually have much worse withdrawal!
- lfowles 6y ago
  It's so weird to keep hearing that prescription doses of these drugs are addictive. I regularly forget to take them until it's too late in the day and if I took them I would have trouble sleeping... :/
  - daniel-cussen 6y ago
    One way to check if you took it, is to choose a song with a strong beat that you've heard thousands of times, for reference. If you took your stimulants that day, the tempo should sound slower than if you didn't.