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> I decided to spend my time learning something IRL One could argue that spending 1,000 hours in Factorio building cool stuff is still doing something IRL. It'

> I decided to spend my time learning something IRL One could argue that spending 1,000 hours in Factorio building cool stuff is still doing something IRL. It's just a different kind of something IRL. To be clear, I am not assuming that you were making a value judgement about the Factorio player :-) But I feel the need to share this point of view nonetheless. The Buddhist monk finds enlightenment by simply being still. This is constructive living - in the sense that it is not destructive to nature / one's surroundings. Along similar lines, immersing one's self in Factorio is an actively entertaining form of being constructively still in the context of one's surroundings. So is reading. Listening to music. Etc. Not everybody needs to build stuff or achieve things IRL. And that's perfectly fine.

fasteddie31003 6y ago
"Not everybody needs to build stuff or achieve things IRL. And that's perfectly fine." Probably the answer to the Fermi Paradox.
- thewakalix 6y ago
  I disagree. There's an asymmetry -- you only need one expansionist civilization to disturb the pristine universe that we observe, no matter how many civilizations are content with staying home and remaining quiet. (Relevant: the unilateralist's curse, https://nickbostrom.com/papers/unilateralist.pdf https://nickbostrom.com/papers/unilateralist.pdf.)
  - Scarblac 6y ago
    First, expansionism needs to be possible. Chemical rockets combined with large biological life forms seem to rule out interstellar colonization.
comboy 6y ago
The way I read stories, most Buddhist monk find enlightenment working their ass off so that they have something to eat. I feel your argument, ultimately there's entropy and I cannot provide any objective reason why exploring whole galaxy is better than being a bacteria. But.. you also perfectly know the other side of your argument even when assuming comfortable living where everything you need is provided to you. If you are considerate about the nature and your surroundings, why would you use that electricity and waste your time when on the long run some being will die because of it and resources that you use can be used to help other beings, in whichever order you prioritize their existence. The bud-hist monk is obsessively rearranging a small stream of water with some sticks until he thinks the flow is satisfying. Not sure why I'm a Zen fighter today, but hey, if you see a drowning kid in front of you IRL and you're on your phone, then it's just a different kind of IRL. What an awful example? I'm typing this bullshit exploring patterns within HN bubble where I could spend that time working and helping with that money some drowning child in another part of the planet. But I didn't mean to focus on philanthropy (which is one of available activities when you have your basic needs satisfied). Reading, listening, music, I think all our great experiences have something to do with other beings. Some form of communication and recognizing unity. So is exchanging info about the game with other players. That's comm unity, and that's great. We have these "make me satisfied" buttons more readily available, which should sort itself out on the long run, but I think sometimes they are being pressed thinking that it's an elevator button or something. Incidentally, the guy who created factorio is one of the most Buddhist-like guys I know (even when he's not meditating) and I played the game and loved it. I guess I just wanted to point out that I think you've used strawman to sell your philosophy, just like I did.
- herodoturtle 6y ago
  The implication in the post above mine was that spending many hours in Factorio was a waste of time, and that a better use of time would be to do something IRL. I simply wanted to express my opinion that playing Factorio is still a form of doing something IRL despite appearances, and that if we were to consider playing Factorio an inefficient use of time then we could make the same argument for reading fiction or listening to music. I guess I could have structured my comment better without resorting to strawman tactics. Sorry about that.
  - comboy 6y ago
    I was just entertaining, probably mostly myself. Fantastic of you to consider your comment and not my interpretation as possible reason for strawman appearing in my prev reply. For the record, I consider me just listening to the music with my eyes closed not doing something IRL. (but yes, music, book or factorio can change one and then one can change the world - and working hard on some cool tech, or changing the world, may in fact only be speeding up our demise.... or save us... so we can suffer longer... who knows)

fasteddie31003 6y ago

"Not everybody needs to build stuff or achieve things IRL. And that's perfectly fine." Probably the answer to the Fermi Paradox.

thewakalix 6y ago
I disagree. There's an asymmetry -- you only need one expansionist civilization to disturb the pristine universe that we observe, no matter how many civilizations are content with staying home and remaining quiet. (Relevant: the unilateralist's curse, https://nickbostrom.com/papers/unilateralist.pdf https://nickbostrom.com/papers/unilateralist.pdf.)
- Scarblac 6y ago
  First, expansionism needs to be possible. Chemical rockets combined with large biological life forms seem to rule out interstellar colonization.

comboy 6y ago

The way I read stories, most Buddhist monk find enlightenment working their ass off so that they have something to eat. I feel your argument, ultimately there's entropy and I cannot provide any objective reason why exploring whole galaxy is better than being a bacteria. But.. you also perfectly know the other side of your argument even when assuming comfortable living where everything you need is provided to you. If you are considerate about the nature and your surroundings, why would you use that electricity and waste your time when on the long run some being will die because of it and resources that you use can be used to help other beings, in whichever order you prioritize their existence. The bud-hist monk is obsessively rearranging a small stream of water with some sticks until he thinks the flow is satisfying. Not sure why I'm a Zen fighter today, but hey, if you see a drowning kid in front of you IRL and you're on your phone, then it's just a different kind of IRL. What an awful example? I'm typing this bullshit exploring patterns within HN bubble where I could spend that time working and helping with that money some drowning child in another part of the planet. But I didn't mean to focus on philanthropy (which is one of available activities when you have your basic needs satisfied). Reading, listening, music, I think all our great experiences have something to do with other beings. Some form of communication and recognizing unity. So is exchanging info about the game with other players. That's comm unity, and that's great. We have these "make me satisfied" buttons more readily available, which should sort itself out on the long run, but I think sometimes they are being pressed thinking that it's an elevator button or something. Incidentally, the guy who created factorio is one of the most Buddhist-like guys I know (even when he's not meditating) and I played the game and loved it. I guess I just wanted to point out that I think you've used strawman to sell your philosophy, just like I did.

herodoturtle 6y ago
The implication in the post above mine was that spending many hours in Factorio was a waste of time, and that a better use of time would be to do something IRL. I simply wanted to express my opinion that playing Factorio is still a form of doing something IRL despite appearances, and that if we were to consider playing Factorio an inefficient use of time then we could make the same argument for reading fiction or listening to music. I guess I could have structured my comment better without resorting to strawman tactics. Sorry about that.
- comboy 6y ago
  I was just entertaining, probably mostly myself. Fantastic of you to consider your comment and not my interpretation as possible reason for strawman appearing in my prev reply. For the record, I consider me just listening to the music with my eyes closed not doing something IRL. (but yes, music, book or factorio can change one and then one can change the world - and working hard on some cool tech, or changing the world, may in fact only be speeding up our demise.... or save us... so we can suffer longer... who knows)