7 ms·

This case is something to keep in mind anytime Amazon comments on any labor matter, be it minimum wage, visas, diversity, work conditions, contractors, anything

This case is something to keep in mind anytime Amazon comments on any labor matter, be it minimum wage, visas, diversity, work conditions, contractors, anything at all. Amazon is not commenting on those issues with anything in mind other than its own interests.

paxys 6y ago
It's bizarre that this even needs to be said IMO.
- ajxs 6y ago
  Unfortunately, it really does. There's so many people who are unable or unwilling to turn a critical eye to the actions of these companies. This applies doubly to social and political issues. Amazon and ilk carefully weigh the options and make decisions according to their own interests.
  - CryptoPunk 6y ago
    It applies much more so to the actions of unions and workers seeking to unionize. They have their own interests, and they are not aligned with the public's. Case in point: Vox writers, who eventually unionized, spent years publishing articles arguing for laws limiting the gig economy, like this one: "The gig economy has grown big, fast — and that’s a problem for workers" [1] Three years after the above article was published, its agenda succeeded, and a new anti-gig-economy law was passed in California. That law in turn forced Vox to let go of hundreds of gig economy freelancers, thus reducing competition to the full-time journalists who used their media platform to lobby for the law: "Vox Media to cut hundreds of freelance jobs ahead of changes in California gig economy laws" [2] [1] https://www.vox.com/2016/10/26/13349498/gig-economy-profits-workers-desperate-services-labor https://www.vox.com/2016/10/26/13349498/gig-economy-profits-... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/16/vox-media-to-cut-hundreds-of-freelance-jobs-ahead-of-californias-ab5.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/16/vox-media-to-cut-hundreds-of...
ArkanExplorer 6y ago
https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/20/21228324/amazon-whole-foods-unionization-heat-map-union https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/20/21228324/amazon-whole-foo... "Whole Foods, which is owned by Amazon, is using a heat map to track stores that may be at risk of unionization" "a “diversity index” represents the racial and ethnic diversity of every store. Stores at higher risk of unionizing have lower diversity" https://trak.in/tags/business/2020/10/31/h1b-visa-ban-google-amazon-44-tech-biggies-sue-us-govt-over-h1b-visa-ban/ https://trak.in/tags/business/2020/10/31/h1b-visa-ban-google... In October 2020 Google, Amazon & 44 Tech Companies Sued the US Govt Over the H1B Visa Ban https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/data/h-1b-petitions-by-gender-country-of-birth-fy2019.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/data/h-1b... European countries make up only 2.8% of the H1B intake.
- yhoneycomb 6y ago
  Makes you wonder if THIS is what's behind all the pushes for diversity
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    Well no, it's not. More diverse stores may have tensions that lower the cohesiveness of the group, and some of their members may be economically more vulnerable and thus more weary of the risk of retaliation, but once (if) diversity is normalized and racial inequality subsides, then this disparity will almost certainly disappear. And once it does, one of the most major lines exploited against economic and social progress becomes much more difficult to exploit.
    - enimodas 6y ago
      Why would big Capital let racial inequality subside when they profit of it? And even if it were to subside, history teaches us that's it's very easy to divide and rile up people along ethnic and cultural lines.
  - knowaveragejoe 6y ago
    Why do people think the promotion of diversity is part of some nefarious global plot?
oort-cloud9 6y ago
Why would it be any other interests. Amazon provides us with goods and services. And that's our only interests. Those useless crybaby activists could find another job if they don't like it.
eplanit 6y ago
"Amazon is not commenting on those issues with anything in mind other than its own interests." Isn't that what any company should do?
- ncallaway 6y ago
  You should keep it in mind when other company's make PR statements, yes. I would like to think that a "good" company should also consider other factors like when they make a PR statement (things like: "is this statement a lie"?). I'd certainly have a hard time arguing that a company should lie in a PR statement, even if it appears that such a lie would be in their interests.
rogerdickey 6y ago
Who said it’s a crime for businesses to keep their own interests in mind or even to weigh them heavily? Seems prudent
- ncallaway 6y ago
  > Who said it’s a crime for businesses to keep their own interests in mind Nobody? Certainly, not the person you're responding to. This comment _almost_ feels like a non-sequitor to me. Someone saying to "keep something in mind" is _not_ them calling it a crime.
- judge2020 6y ago
  Some would argue that that shouldn't mean Amazon gets to impose conditions that cause a non-trivial amount of workers to be forced to do things like pee in bottles, or fight for their right to not endure such conditions (amongst other harsh conditions like extremely high quotas).
- kelnos 6y ago
  Nobody said it's a crime, but I really don't want to live in a world where the interests of corporate profits outweigh everything else. We're already pretty far down that path; too far, IMO.
- post_below 6y ago
  Not a crime, a reality, cheers to anyone who tries to keep that reality at the forefront of the conversation.
plandis 6y ago
That’s literally every publicly traded company, not just Amazon.

paxys 6y ago

It's bizarre that this even needs to be said IMO.

ajxs 6y ago
Unfortunately, it really does. There's so many people who are unable or unwilling to turn a critical eye to the actions of these companies. This applies doubly to social and political issues. Amazon and ilk carefully weigh the options and make decisions according to their own interests.
- CryptoPunk 6y ago
  It applies much more so to the actions of unions and workers seeking to unionize. They have their own interests, and they are not aligned with the public's. Case in point: Vox writers, who eventually unionized, spent years publishing articles arguing for laws limiting the gig economy, like this one: "The gig economy has grown big, fast — and that’s a problem for workers" [1] Three years after the above article was published, its agenda succeeded, and a new anti-gig-economy law was passed in California. That law in turn forced Vox to let go of hundreds of gig economy freelancers, thus reducing competition to the full-time journalists who used their media platform to lobby for the law: "Vox Media to cut hundreds of freelance jobs ahead of changes in California gig economy laws" [2] [1] https://www.vox.com/2016/10/26/13349498/gig-economy-profits-workers-desperate-services-labor https://www.vox.com/2016/10/26/13349498/gig-economy-profits-... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/16/vox-media-to-cut-hundreds-of-freelance-jobs-ahead-of-californias-ab5.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/16/vox-media-to-cut-hundreds-of...

ArkanExplorer 6y ago

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/20/21228324/amazon-whole-foods-unionization-heat-map-union https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/20/21228324/amazon-whole-foo... "Whole Foods, which is owned by Amazon, is using a heat map to track stores that may be at risk of unionization" "a “diversity index” represents the racial and ethnic diversity of every store. Stores at higher risk of unionizing have lower diversity" https://trak.in/tags/business/2020/10/31/h1b-visa-ban-google-amazon-44-tech-biggies-sue-us-govt-over-h1b-visa-ban/ https://trak.in/tags/business/2020/10/31/h1b-visa-ban-google... In October 2020 Google, Amazon & 44 Tech Companies Sued the US Govt Over the H1B Visa Ban https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/data/h-1b-petitions-by-gender-country-of-birth-fy2019.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/data/h-1b... European countries make up only 2.8% of the H1B intake.

yhoneycomb 6y ago
Makes you wonder if THIS is what's behind all the pushes for diversity
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  Well no, it's not. More diverse stores may have tensions that lower the cohesiveness of the group, and some of their members may be economically more vulnerable and thus more weary of the risk of retaliation, but once (if) diversity is normalized and racial inequality subsides, then this disparity will almost certainly disappear. And once it does, one of the most major lines exploited against economic and social progress becomes much more difficult to exploit.
  - enimodas 6y ago
    Why would big Capital let racial inequality subside when they profit of it? And even if it were to subside, history teaches us that's it's very easy to divide and rile up people along ethnic and cultural lines.
- knowaveragejoe 6y ago
  Why do people think the promotion of diversity is part of some nefarious global plot?

oort-cloud9 6y ago

Why would it be any other interests. Amazon provides us with goods and services. And that's our only interests. Those useless crybaby activists could find another job if they don't like it.

eplanit 6y ago

"Amazon is not commenting on those issues with anything in mind other than its own interests." Isn't that what any company should do?

ncallaway 6y ago
You should keep it in mind when other company's make PR statements, yes. I would like to think that a "good" company should also consider other factors like when they make a PR statement (things like: "is this statement a lie"?). I'd certainly have a hard time arguing that a company should lie in a PR statement, even if it appears that such a lie would be in their interests.

rogerdickey 6y ago

Who said it’s a crime for businesses to keep their own interests in mind or even to weigh them heavily? Seems prudent

ncallaway 6y ago
> Who said it’s a crime for businesses to keep their own interests in mind Nobody? Certainly, not the person you're responding to. This comment _almost_ feels like a non-sequitor to me. Someone saying to "keep something in mind" is _not_ them calling it a crime.
judge2020 6y ago
Some would argue that that shouldn't mean Amazon gets to impose conditions that cause a non-trivial amount of workers to be forced to do things like pee in bottles, or fight for their right to not endure such conditions (amongst other harsh conditions like extremely high quotas).
kelnos 6y ago
Nobody said it's a crime, but I really don't want to live in a world where the interests of corporate profits outweigh everything else. We're already pretty far down that path; too far, IMO.
post_below 6y ago
Not a crime, a reality, cheers to anyone who tries to keep that reality at the forefront of the conversation.

plandis 6y ago

That’s literally every publicly traded company, not just Amazon.