6 ms·

Public libraries aren't a thing in many countries. The reason North America has a tradition of public libraries is that one of the richest men of the 20th centu

Public libraries aren't a thing in many countries. The reason North America has a tradition of public libraries is that one of the richest men of the 20th century decided to leave behind a legacy of literacy [1]. Prior to that, quite a few protestant groups were big on literacy and invented the idea of public libraries for all. I have friends from other countries who have told me that libraries in their home countries are indeed commercial, you pay a small fee to rent a book for a fixed period of time. Stories from childhood, so I am not sure if such libraries are still common place in those countries, but the question is most certainly not stupid. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_libraries_in_North_America#Carnegie_libraries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_libraries_in_North_Amer...

space_fountain 6y ago
For one example of this currently, here's what comes up when I search for Amsterdam Public library: https://www.oba.nl/service/word-lid.html https://www.oba.nl/service/word-lid.html (it also matches my memory of walking around the big public library in Amsterdam). That's $44 a year to checkout up to 50 items (only 6 ebooks) and $1 for every reservation you want to make. For $56 bucks you get unlimited checkout. Its not exactly a huge cost, but still not what I expected based on my experience in the US and my perception of Europe
- Kognito 6y ago
  > not what I expected based on my experience in the US and my perception of Europe I'm always fascinated to see comparisons between the US and Europe (as a European myself), as if the comparison were between two countries, rather than a country and a continent consisting of many, very different countries. You'll find some commonality between neighbouring European countries, but not in the same way you would between US states. Speaking from experience, the UK & Ireland have an extensive system of public libraries, usually each local area will have one, where books and materials can be checked out for free. Similarly my experience in France was the same, materials can be checked out for free. Can't speak for any other European countries.
  - space_fountain 6y ago
    For whatever good it does, I did sort of think about the fact this was an over generalization, when writing this, but it's also absolutely the way I thought about it at the time. I do actually remember having a more limited but similar feeling visiting a library in I think Bath, UK which felt similar in quality to the libraries in truly tiny towns growing up in Ohio. It was free, but the services offered and number of books was way worse than I'd expect from a similarly sized US city especially one that seemed sort of well to do. Meanwhile I think a lot of people in the US have a mostly fair impression of Western European countries investing a lot into their public sectors, but for better or worse my very scientific impression is that the US invests a lot more into libraries. I didn't mean to imply that all libraries charge in Europe though. I knew that wasn't true, I just would have assumed before that all libraries in western Europe were free
  - umanwizard 6y ago
    European countries are more similar to each other than they are to the US, or to most countries in Asia or Africa. They’re also more similar to each other than the US is to any other country in the Americas besides Canada. Those reasons are why we sometimes talk about them as one cluster, even those of us who know that the various countries aren’t identical.
    - nine_k 6y ago
      I'd also say that US states are quite varied in their culture. Maybe not as much as European countries, but still the comparison between US and Western Europe is not between a single hue and a rainbow, but rather between different spectra.
      - umanwizard 6y ago
        Cultural differences do exist in the US, but IMO they have little to do with state borders. Someone from Brooklyn has much more in common with someone from Jersey City than they do with someone from Ithaca. Phoenix feels more like Anaheim than it does like Nogales. And so on.
  - 6y ago
- m463 6y ago
  So netflix is the library model, for movies. :)
- gpvos 6y ago
  The cheaper price used to give unlimited loans until last year or so, and it's still free with unlimited loans if you're under 19 or have a low income (look under Stadspas). But yeah. Arrangements may differ somewhat by city/village.
hkt 6y ago
TIL, that's fascinating. I'm a member of a number of subscription libraries in the UK that predate public libraries and had no idea about Carnegie's role. The role for subscription based libraries in the UK is usually for specialist nonacademic research, or perhaps just an old community of readers who like things just-so. Back in the 19th century one of the things mutuals and co-ops used to do in the UK was provide reading rooms, circulating libraries, lectures and such, much like Carnegie's libraries. It was often working class self help rather than liberal philanthropy, too. There's a great history of this (and lots more) in Jonathan Rose's Intellectual History of the British Working Class.
redisman 6y ago
There are also many places with much more expansive libraries. Like the flagship in Helsinki (yes its funny to have a flagship library) https://www.oodihelsinki.fi/en/ https://www.oodihelsinki.fi/en/

space_fountain 6y ago

For one example of this currently, here's what comes up when I search for Amsterdam Public library: https://www.oba.nl/service/word-lid.html https://www.oba.nl/service/word-lid.html (it also matches my memory of walking around the big public library in Amsterdam). That's $44 a year to checkout up to 50 items (only 6 ebooks) and $1 for every reservation you want to make. For $56 bucks you get unlimited checkout. Its not exactly a huge cost, but still not what I expected based on my experience in the US and my perception of Europe

Kognito 6y ago
> not what I expected based on my experience in the US and my perception of Europe I'm always fascinated to see comparisons between the US and Europe (as a European myself), as if the comparison were between two countries, rather than a country and a continent consisting of many, very different countries. You'll find some commonality between neighbouring European countries, but not in the same way you would between US states. Speaking from experience, the UK & Ireland have an extensive system of public libraries, usually each local area will have one, where books and materials can be checked out for free. Similarly my experience in France was the same, materials can be checked out for free. Can't speak for any other European countries.
- space_fountain 6y ago
  For whatever good it does, I did sort of think about the fact this was an over generalization, when writing this, but it's also absolutely the way I thought about it at the time. I do actually remember having a more limited but similar feeling visiting a library in I think Bath, UK which felt similar in quality to the libraries in truly tiny towns growing up in Ohio. It was free, but the services offered and number of books was way worse than I'd expect from a similarly sized US city especially one that seemed sort of well to do. Meanwhile I think a lot of people in the US have a mostly fair impression of Western European countries investing a lot into their public sectors, but for better or worse my very scientific impression is that the US invests a lot more into libraries. I didn't mean to imply that all libraries charge in Europe though. I knew that wasn't true, I just would have assumed before that all libraries in western Europe were free
- umanwizard 6y ago
  European countries are more similar to each other than they are to the US, or to most countries in Asia or Africa. They’re also more similar to each other than the US is to any other country in the Americas besides Canada. Those reasons are why we sometimes talk about them as one cluster, even those of us who know that the various countries aren’t identical.
  - nine_k 6y ago
    I'd also say that US states are quite varied in their culture. Maybe not as much as European countries, but still the comparison between US and Western Europe is not between a single hue and a rainbow, but rather between different spectra.
    - umanwizard 6y ago
      Cultural differences do exist in the US, but IMO they have little to do with state borders. Someone from Brooklyn has much more in common with someone from Jersey City than they do with someone from Ithaca. Phoenix feels more like Anaheim than it does like Nogales. And so on.
- 6y ago
m463 6y ago
So netflix is the library model, for movies. :)
gpvos 6y ago
The cheaper price used to give unlimited loans until last year or so, and it's still free with unlimited loans if you're under 19 or have a low income (look under Stadspas). But yeah. Arrangements may differ somewhat by city/village.

hkt 6y ago

TIL, that's fascinating. I'm a member of a number of subscription libraries in the UK that predate public libraries and had no idea about Carnegie's role. The role for subscription based libraries in the UK is usually for specialist nonacademic research, or perhaps just an old community of readers who like things just-so. Back in the 19th century one of the things mutuals and co-ops used to do in the UK was provide reading rooms, circulating libraries, lectures and such, much like Carnegie's libraries. It was often working class self help rather than liberal philanthropy, too. There's a great history of this (and lots more) in Jonathan Rose's Intellectual History of the British Working Class.

redisman 6y ago

There are also many places with much more expansive libraries. Like the flagship in Helsinki (yes its funny to have a flagship library) https://www.oodihelsinki.fi/en/ https://www.oodihelsinki.fi/en/