5 ms·

Brazil has become South America’s superspreader event

fasteddie31003 6y ago
A little off topic. Why is it not politically correct to name new pathogens (COVID-19) after country of origin, but's fine to name variants by country of origin?
- js2 6y ago
  This article exclusively refers to it as the P.1 variant.
- anonymouswacker 6y ago
  Latin American countries have less influence than China.
- choward 6y ago
  I've seen articles saying we should treat the B117 (UK) variant as a new virus. Shouldn't we just call it UK virus if it's a new virus? I'm not actually serious. I think naming viruses/variants after places is a mistake to begin with since it's hard to prove where they originate. Also it discourages finding new viruses since you don't want your home country's name to be used in naming it. Nobody knows where the Spanish flu came from. It's just that they were the first ones who paid attention to it since they weren't fighting in WWI.
  - sjg007 6y ago
    The current theory is that the Spanish flu originated in Haskell County, Kansas.
- Synaesthesia 6y ago
  China contained the virus it was in Europe and America’s that it blew up.
  - gruez 6y ago
    So naming a virus after a particular country should be dished out as a form of punishment?
  - rhino369 6y ago
    China certainly didn't contain it from spreading it to the rest of the world.
  - ArkanExplorer 6y ago
    Deaths in Sweden were only 6% higher in 2020 than 2018: https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-... And even that can be mostly explained by a weak flu season there in 2019, and a generally aging population. Its difficult to interpret the deaths from this virus as justifying complete lockdown of societies - especially when Sweden has fewer deaths per capita from COVID than a significant number of countries which did order mandatory lockdowns.
- frongpik 6y ago
  Because China, unlike South America, has power over others.
- neaden 6y ago
  Neither are, and generally it's preferred to use another term. If you go to the CDC web page on variants for instance you'll see that it call sit B.1.1.7 not UK Variant https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/transmission/variant.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/transmission/varia...
  - Arnt 6y ago
    That seems a bit too pedantic... I think the correct answer is that certain persons tried to use the virus' chinese origin as a smear, and now it's unusable. You can't talk like those people because those people talked like that. This happens all the time in Germany (where I live now): Nazis use a phrase or something, and after that using it makes one sound like a nazi even if that's really completely unreasonable. There was a fine example around 2002, when the newspaper editors had a long discussion on how to translate the name of dhs.gov without triggering any prejudice in the readers, just because a long-dead nazi tended to use phrases very much like various possible translations. Noone's been using e.g the South African origin of that variant as a smear, so it doesn't carry any connotations.
    - jfengel 6y ago
      It's not a good idea to name diseases after places, because it's misleading and not informative. The WHO has been telling people that "a disease name should consist of generic descriptive terms" for years: https://www.who.int/news/item/08-05-2015-who-issues-best-practices-for-naming-new-human-infectious-diseases https://www.who.int/news/item/08-05-2015-who-issues-best-pra... It goes well beyond smears. The WHO notes that it can "provoke a backlash against members of particular religious or ethnic communities, create unjustified barriers to travel, commerce and trade, and trigger needless slaughtering of food animals". They point out that the scientists need to get ahead of it. Once a name has taken off in the popular press, it's hard to stop. I'll note that the Department of Homeland Security has a somewhat Orwellian ring in English as well, and that was noted at the time. It sounds like somebody is trying too hard.
riffraff 6y ago
I'm surprised the article doesn't manage to discuss how brazil's leadership messed up big time by insisting in treating this like a flu. Also, Chile has a ton of vaccines, but they are not the same distribution as, say, the US or the UK: there seem to be a ton of Sinovac, and I'm not sure it's as effective as some other vaccines at stopping by transmission or hospitalizations.
- germinalphrase 6y ago
  Terrence McCoy’s other writing for the Post does make this argument at length.
cooldevguy 6y ago
> “We did not expect such a strong second wave,” I don't think the world was ever out of the first wave for starters
- Synaesthesia 6y ago
  Brazil certainly didn’t. I don’t know many European and Middle Eastern countries had cases fall dramatically. South Africa too.
data_spy 6y ago
Anyone else find that protest picture ironic?
BikiniPrince 6y ago
Third world medicine at its best! Too don’t hear India whining, but they bought into hydroxychlorine fairly early. Hell, they even supply it to several countries. At least they didn’t turn down medicine because it was highly politicized. Brazil and Venezuela probably can’t stop you from dying after an infection in the toe. Not sure why they are going to do for anything else.
- rmsaksida 6y ago
  I can't speak for Venezuela, but you are entirely wrong about Brazil.
  - tiltrus 6y ago
    Anecdotally, my experience with Brazil has been great health care in the private hospitals. Not so much in the public...
- SwiftyBug 6y ago
  Brazil has one of the most effective public health systems in the world. Specially considering the country's size. It's not perfect, but it's very, very, far from letting anyone die from an infection in the toe.
dyingkneepad 6y ago
I tried to explain the Brazilian situation previously, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26649811 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26649811
- tiltrus 6y ago
  I agree with all your points. Being a gringo now for awhile in this country -- this hits the nail on the head in my experience. Beautiful country though -- it's hard to leave life on the Praia here for something else.

A little off topic. Why is it not politically correct to name new pathogens (COVID-19) after country of origin, but's fine to name variants by country of origin?

js2 6y ago
This article exclusively refers to it as the P.1 variant.
anonymouswacker 6y ago
Latin American countries have less influence than China.
choward 6y ago
I've seen articles saying we should treat the B117 (UK) variant as a new virus. Shouldn't we just call it UK virus if it's a new virus? I'm not actually serious. I think naming viruses/variants after places is a mistake to begin with since it's hard to prove where they originate. Also it discourages finding new viruses since you don't want your home country's name to be used in naming it. Nobody knows where the Spanish flu came from. It's just that they were the first ones who paid attention to it since they weren't fighting in WWI.
- sjg007 6y ago
  The current theory is that the Spanish flu originated in Haskell County, Kansas.
Synaesthesia 6y ago
China contained the virus it was in Europe and America’s that it blew up.
- gruez 6y ago
  So naming a virus after a particular country should be dished out as a form of punishment?
- rhino369 6y ago
  China certainly didn't contain it from spreading it to the rest of the world.
- ArkanExplorer 6y ago
  Deaths in Sweden were only 6% higher in 2020 than 2018: https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-... And even that can be mostly explained by a weak flu season there in 2019, and a generally aging population. Its difficult to interpret the deaths from this virus as justifying complete lockdown of societies - especially when Sweden has fewer deaths per capita from COVID than a significant number of countries which did order mandatory lockdowns.
frongpik 6y ago
Because China, unlike South America, has power over others.
neaden 6y ago
Neither are, and generally it's preferred to use another term. If you go to the CDC web page on variants for instance you'll see that it call sit B.1.1.7 not UK Variant https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/transmission/variant.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/transmission/varia...
- Arnt 6y ago
  That seems a bit too pedantic... I think the correct answer is that certain persons tried to use the virus' chinese origin as a smear, and now it's unusable. You can't talk like those people because those people talked like that. This happens all the time in Germany (where I live now): Nazis use a phrase or something, and after that using it makes one sound like a nazi even if that's really completely unreasonable. There was a fine example around 2002, when the newspaper editors had a long discussion on how to translate the name of dhs.gov without triggering any prejudice in the readers, just because a long-dead nazi tended to use phrases very much like various possible translations. Noone's been using e.g the South African origin of that variant as a smear, so it doesn't carry any connotations.
  - jfengel 6y ago
    It's not a good idea to name diseases after places, because it's misleading and not informative. The WHO has been telling people that "a disease name should consist of generic descriptive terms" for years: https://www.who.int/news/item/08-05-2015-who-issues-best-practices-for-naming-new-human-infectious-diseases https://www.who.int/news/item/08-05-2015-who-issues-best-pra... It goes well beyond smears. The WHO notes that it can "provoke a backlash against members of particular religious or ethnic communities, create unjustified barriers to travel, commerce and trade, and trigger needless slaughtering of food animals". They point out that the scientists need to get ahead of it. Once a name has taken off in the popular press, it's hard to stop. I'll note that the Department of Homeland Security has a somewhat Orwellian ring in English as well, and that was noted at the time. It sounds like somebody is trying too hard.

riffraff 6y ago

I'm surprised the article doesn't manage to discuss how brazil's leadership messed up big time by insisting in treating this like a flu. Also, Chile has a ton of vaccines, but they are not the same distribution as, say, the US or the UK: there seem to be a ton of Sinovac, and I'm not sure it's as effective as some other vaccines at stopping by transmission or hospitalizations.

germinalphrase 6y ago
Terrence McCoy’s other writing for the Post does make this argument at length.

cooldevguy 6y ago

> “We did not expect such a strong second wave,” I don't think the world was ever out of the first wave for starters

Synaesthesia 6y ago
Brazil certainly didn’t. I don’t know many European and Middle Eastern countries had cases fall dramatically. South Africa too.

data_spy 6y ago

Anyone else find that protest picture ironic?

BikiniPrince 6y ago

Third world medicine at its best! Too don’t hear India whining, but they bought into hydroxychlorine fairly early. Hell, they even supply it to several countries. At least they didn’t turn down medicine because it was highly politicized. Brazil and Venezuela probably can’t stop you from dying after an infection in the toe. Not sure why they are going to do for anything else.

rmsaksida 6y ago
I can't speak for Venezuela, but you are entirely wrong about Brazil.
- tiltrus 6y ago
  Anecdotally, my experience with Brazil has been great health care in the private hospitals. Not so much in the public...
SwiftyBug 6y ago
Brazil has one of the most effective public health systems in the world. Specially considering the country's size. It's not perfect, but it's very, very, far from letting anyone die from an infection in the toe.

dyingkneepad 6y ago

I tried to explain the Brazilian situation previously, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26649811 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26649811

tiltrus 6y ago
I agree with all your points. Being a gringo now for awhile in this country -- this hits the nail on the head in my experience. Beautiful country though -- it's hard to leave life on the Praia here for something else.