4 ms·

America Has a Ruling Class

17 points by luu 6y ago

WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
"First, we should stop confusing consumer preferences with power."
xxxxxyyg1 6y ago
The stereotypical NYT reader is precisely the ruling class. The ones that always say their opinions are not a matter of politics. The ones that claim "reality has a liberal bias." When faced with divergent opinions or norms, goes straight to "misinformed" or "uneducated" for a label. Generally speaking, they're nauseating, moralistic hypocrites.
ncmncm 6y ago
There is a ruling class, and there is an underclass. There used to be a middle class, but that has been squeezed out of existence. In the ruling class, typical income is above $1M. If there were still a middle class, it would be between there and $300K, but their number is demographically negligible. It has been the great triumph of the effort to eliminate the middle class that an overwhelming majority of the underclass do not know they are; and firmly believe they are, as their grandparents were, middle-class. A mark of that success is that instead of resenting having been driven out of the middle class, people resent learning that they are not in it.
- baggy_trough 6y ago
  You think an income of $299K is underclass?
  - hnbad 6y ago
    The point isn't the exact numbers, the point is the divide. You're unlikely to make the jump from the underclass to the ruling class nor vice versa because the superstructure keeps you in place. If you have wealthy and powerful parents with wealthy and powerful friends, you'll likely end up being wealthy and powerful yourself even if you totally screw up your life choices. You probably still end up going to an elite college, hanging around in elite business clubs meeting other people in the same position as you. No amount of hussle is going to turn someone with no familial wealth or connections into a Clinton, Kennedy or Bush. Just as no amount of staying late and working hard is going to turn a factory worker into a Bezos, Musk or Gates. The "family and friends" round of investment isn't going to yield much if neither your friends nor family have any wealth to spare.
    - baggy_trough 6y ago
      The post I was replying to stated that the middle class was squeezed out of existence. It seemed to do so by defining it out of existence in a bizarre way.
      - xboxnolifes 6y ago
        Alternatively, the middle class can always exist if you decide to lower the threshold until it fits your quota. A gap of between 30% to 100% of the minimum for the higher threshold seems large enough when defining a "middle".
        baggy_trough 6y ago
        It could also indicate that the higher threshold is too high. Regardless of the reason, an income of $299K is plainly not underclass by any stretch of the imagination.
        ncmncm 6y ago
        "A mark of that success is that instead of resenting having been driven out of the middle class, people resent learning that they are not in it." US economic output has remained on the same sharp rising slope since 1975 as between 1945 and 1975. But since 1975, all of that increased income has been diverted to the ruling class, while the rest of the nation has been stuck at 1975 levels. If $300,000/y seems to you like upper-class income, it is purely because you have been made accustomed to a 1975 level of prosperity, while the ruling class lives on 2021 income it has since 1975 diverted to its own pockets. The ruling class will not give up its diversion of income from your pockets to their pockets without a fight. Imagine how angry they would be at being made to give that up; you should, by rights, be more angry at their ongoing confiscation of your income.
        baggy_trough 6y ago
        I did not claim it was upperclass. My claim was that calling it underclass is absurd.
IOT_Apprentice 6y ago
America has a set of Oligarchs, as many nations do.
- lotr 6y ago
  The governor of my state is a literal billionaire trust fund baby. His only prior achievements were in "philanthropy" and his singular legislative accomplishment is a corrupt scheme for the cannabis industry. It's like a comic book. The crazy thing is most people don't seem to mind.
  - bgorman 6y ago
    Illinois is what happens when unions are allowed to influence politics.
corty 6y ago
Why the hell isn't this obvious? Presidents are recruited out of senators. Being a senator often runs in the family. And there are clans providing a lot of the past and current leadership, think Kennedy, Bush, Clinton. Of course there is a ruling class.
8f2ab37a-ed6c 6y ago
Pretending to be part of the working masses is simply good PR and positioning for one's career as a ruler, and these folks have figured it out a while ago. They're hustling like everybody else, good for them. If they can have the cake and eat it too, why wouldn't they? The voters seem to eat it up every time and give them no reason to stop the act.
selimthegrim 6y ago
Have we all forgotten about a little book Joseph Alsop wrote? https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/joseph-epstein/joseph-alsop-the-wasp-ascendancy/ https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/joseph-epstein/j...

17 points by luu 6y ago

"First, we should stop confusing consumer preferences with power."

The stereotypical NYT reader is precisely the ruling class. The ones that always say their opinions are not a matter of politics. The ones that claim "reality has a liberal bias." When faced with divergent opinions or norms, goes straight to "misinformed" or "uneducated" for a label. Generally speaking, they're nauseating, moralistic hypocrites.

ncmncm 6y ago

There is a ruling class, and there is an underclass. There used to be a middle class, but that has been squeezed out of existence. In the ruling class, typical income is above $1M. If there were still a middle class, it would be between there and $300K, but their number is demographically negligible. It has been the great triumph of the effort to eliminate the middle class that an overwhelming majority of the underclass do not know they are; and firmly believe they are, as their grandparents were, middle-class. A mark of that success is that instead of resenting having been driven out of the middle class, people resent learning that they are not in it.

baggy_trough 6y ago
You think an income of $299K is underclass?
- hnbad 6y ago
  The point isn't the exact numbers, the point is the divide. You're unlikely to make the jump from the underclass to the ruling class nor vice versa because the superstructure keeps you in place. If you have wealthy and powerful parents with wealthy and powerful friends, you'll likely end up being wealthy and powerful yourself even if you totally screw up your life choices. You probably still end up going to an elite college, hanging around in elite business clubs meeting other people in the same position as you. No amount of hussle is going to turn someone with no familial wealth or connections into a Clinton, Kennedy or Bush. Just as no amount of staying late and working hard is going to turn a factory worker into a Bezos, Musk or Gates. The "family and friends" round of investment isn't going to yield much if neither your friends nor family have any wealth to spare.
  - baggy_trough 6y ago
    The post I was replying to stated that the middle class was squeezed out of existence. It seemed to do so by defining it out of existence in a bizarre way.
    - xboxnolifes 6y ago
      Alternatively, the middle class can always exist if you decide to lower the threshold until it fits your quota. A gap of between 30% to 100% of the minimum for the higher threshold seems large enough when defining a "middle".
      - baggy_trough 6y ago
        It could also indicate that the higher threshold is too high. Regardless of the reason, an income of $299K is plainly not underclass by any stretch of the imagination.
        ncmncm 6y ago
        "A mark of that success is that instead of resenting having been driven out of the middle class, people resent learning that they are not in it." US economic output has remained on the same sharp rising slope since 1975 as between 1945 and 1975. But since 1975, all of that increased income has been diverted to the ruling class, while the rest of the nation has been stuck at 1975 levels. If $300,000/y seems to you like upper-class income, it is purely because you have been made accustomed to a 1975 level of prosperity, while the ruling class lives on 2021 income it has since 1975 diverted to its own pockets. The ruling class will not give up its diversion of income from your pockets to their pockets without a fight. Imagine how angry they would be at being made to give that up; you should, by rights, be more angry at their ongoing confiscation of your income.
        baggy_trough 6y ago
        I did not claim it was upperclass. My claim was that calling it underclass is absurd.

IOT_Apprentice 6y ago

America has a set of Oligarchs, as many nations do.

lotr 6y ago
The governor of my state is a literal billionaire trust fund baby. His only prior achievements were in "philanthropy" and his singular legislative accomplishment is a corrupt scheme for the cannabis industry. It's like a comic book. The crazy thing is most people don't seem to mind.
- bgorman 6y ago
  Illinois is what happens when unions are allowed to influence politics.

corty 6y ago

Why the hell isn't this obvious? Presidents are recruited out of senators. Being a senator often runs in the family. And there are clans providing a lot of the past and current leadership, think Kennedy, Bush, Clinton. Of course there is a ruling class.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 6y ago

Pretending to be part of the working masses is simply good PR and positioning for one's career as a ruler, and these folks have figured it out a while ago. They're hustling like everybody else, good for them. If they can have the cake and eat it too, why wouldn't they? The voters seem to eat it up every time and give them no reason to stop the act.

selimthegrim 6y ago

Have we all forgotten about a little book Joseph Alsop wrote? https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/joseph-epstein/joseph-alsop-the-wasp-ascendancy/ https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/joseph-epstein/j...