3 ms·

If someone shows up with something that couldn't legally be a service animal (e.g. a bunny) or cannot respond adequately as to how the dog has been trained to p

by mlyle 6y ago

If someone shows up with something that couldn't legally be a service animal (e.g. a bunny) or cannot respond adequately as to how the dog has been trained to perform a specific task, then they may have grounds to refuse to admit the dog. https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html Q3. Are emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals considered service animals under the ADA? A. No. These terms are used to describe animals that provide comfort just by being with a person. Because they have not been trained to perform a specific job or task, they do not qualify as service animals under the ADA. However, some State or local governments have laws that allow people to take emotional support animals into public places. You may check with your State and local government agencies to find out about these laws. Q7. What questions can a covered entity's employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal? A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
I’m familiar with those guidelines, but effectively, anyone can say anything, and the last sentence shows that you basically have to take their word for it (unless you want to risk getting involved in a costly legal matter). I know you don’t have to take lizards as service animals, but you do basically have to take chihuahuas or Pomeranians or pit bulls or Rottweilers or whatever as service dogs, and maybe miniature horses. > Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability. Miniature horses here: https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
- mlyle 6y ago
  First section of your link: > Beginning on March 15, 2011, only dogs are recognized as service animals under titles II and III of the ADA And thus now miniature horses are under a much more strict regulatory regime.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  Yes, you do have to take their word for it. If the dog is disruptive (e.g. barking or not housetrained), you can ask them to leave. The dog must be under control by the owner at all times. Dogs must (generally) remain on the floor or on the owner (and not in a shopping cart). Seating, food, drink, and other amenities are for the person, not the dog. In practice, asking these two questions and understanding the limits of where you can intervene is sufficient in 99% of cases. > you do basically have to take chihuahuas or Pomeranians or pit bulls or Rottweilers or whatever as service dogs Why is this a problem? Different breeds have different characteristics, and there are a variety of reasons to have a service dog -- from PTSD to blindness to diabetes.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    >In practice, asking these two questions and understanding the limits of where you can intervene is sufficient in 99% of cases. Hah, try it at a hotel that charges pet cleaning fees. Or limits the number of animals in a room. It's 99% sufficient at Costco, because the cost is low of not getting in. When you're looking at shelling out money for a pet fee or not having to pay for pet boarding or pet sitters at home, suddenly 10%+ of the population has service animals. >Why is this a problem? Different breeds have different characteristics, and there are a variety of reasons to have a service dog -- from PTSD to blindness to diabetes. It's not a problem necessarily, but you can sort of tell who is and isn't lying about service animals, at least by the discrepancy in total numbers and which ones are coming in with the badges and vests (indicating they don't know about actual ADA laws).
    - Pfhreak 6y ago
      Amortize the costs of the liars across the base cost of the room. It's really not that many people who will lie about it. Some folks end up paying a little more on average and some people cheat and pay a little less, but the folks who need service animal accommodations don't get accosted by desk clerks. Sounds like a win to me.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
Pfhreak 6y ago
> (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? I worked at a Costco for a few years, these two questions were drilled into us over and over and over and over. People tried to bring dogs into Costco all the time, and we'd ask these two (and only these two) questions. Occasionally, some new employee or someone who was grumpy would go off script and it was considered a very serious issue. The folks with service animals knew the drill, would answer these questions quickly and succinctly. The ones without service animals would (sometimes) get extremely agitated about them. It's really tough, because so many people are inconsiderately trying to pretend their animals are service animals, which makes life for the folks who require the assistance of a service animal much, much more complicated. If you've ever considered "just ordering a service dog vest online", please reconsider.
- mlyle 6y ago
  Gah. Humans are so annoying sometimes, aren't they? Did the legally allowed questions allow you to exclude the dog very often, or did you pretty much have to concede the matter most of the time?
  - Pfhreak 6y ago
    I never really tried to exclude dogs. Sometimes folks would say, "Oh, no, this isn't a service dog." and we'd ask them to not bring the animal inside. If someone said yes, and explained a task, then let them through. I'd rather allow an animal that wasn't actually a service dog than disallow one that was. If a dog becomes disruptive, you can ask its owner to leave.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    >Did the legally allowed questions allow you to exclude the dog very often, or did you pretty much have to concede the matter most of the time? At my businesses, the instruction is to concede as I don't want to get involved in a costly legal fight. I don't see anyway for the business to come out ahead unless you have a recording and solid evidence of the person lying. I don't imagine it's any different for Costco. If anything, it's worse since they have deeper pockets to go after for people looking for a fight.

by mlyle 6y ago

lotsofpulp 6y ago

I’m familiar with those guidelines, but effectively, anyone can say anything, and the last sentence shows that you basically have to take their word for it (unless you want to risk getting involved in a costly legal matter). I know you don’t have to take lizards as service animals, but you do basically have to take chihuahuas or Pomeranians or pit bulls or Rottweilers or whatever as service dogs, and maybe miniature horses. > Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability. Miniature horses here: https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

mlyle 6y ago
First section of your link: > Beginning on March 15, 2011, only dogs are recognized as service animals under titles II and III of the ADA And thus now miniature horses are under a much more strict regulatory regime.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Pfhreak 6y ago
Yes, you do have to take their word for it. If the dog is disruptive (e.g. barking or not housetrained), you can ask them to leave. The dog must be under control by the owner at all times. Dogs must (generally) remain on the floor or on the owner (and not in a shopping cart). Seating, food, drink, and other amenities are for the person, not the dog. In practice, asking these two questions and understanding the limits of where you can intervene is sufficient in 99% of cases. > you do basically have to take chihuahuas or Pomeranians or pit bulls or Rottweilers or whatever as service dogs Why is this a problem? Different breeds have different characteristics, and there are a variety of reasons to have a service dog -- from PTSD to blindness to diabetes.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  >In practice, asking these two questions and understanding the limits of where you can intervene is sufficient in 99% of cases. Hah, try it at a hotel that charges pet cleaning fees. Or limits the number of animals in a room. It's 99% sufficient at Costco, because the cost is low of not getting in. When you're looking at shelling out money for a pet fee or not having to pay for pet boarding or pet sitters at home, suddenly 10%+ of the population has service animals. >Why is this a problem? Different breeds have different characteristics, and there are a variety of reasons to have a service dog -- from PTSD to blindness to diabetes. It's not a problem necessarily, but you can sort of tell who is and isn't lying about service animals, at least by the discrepancy in total numbers and which ones are coming in with the badges and vests (indicating they don't know about actual ADA laws).
  - Pfhreak 6y ago
    Amortize the costs of the liars across the base cost of the room. It's really not that many people who will lie about it. Some folks end up paying a little more on average and some people cheat and pay a little less, but the folks who need service animal accommodations don't get accosted by desk clerks. Sounds like a win to me.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago

Pfhreak 6y ago

> (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? I worked at a Costco for a few years, these two questions were drilled into us over and over and over and over. People tried to bring dogs into Costco all the time, and we'd ask these two (and only these two) questions. Occasionally, some new employee or someone who was grumpy would go off script and it was considered a very serious issue. The folks with service animals knew the drill, would answer these questions quickly and succinctly. The ones without service animals would (sometimes) get extremely agitated about them. It's really tough, because so many people are inconsiderately trying to pretend their animals are service animals, which makes life for the folks who require the assistance of a service animal much, much more complicated. If you've ever considered "just ordering a service dog vest online", please reconsider.

mlyle 6y ago
Gah. Humans are so annoying sometimes, aren't they? Did the legally allowed questions allow you to exclude the dog very often, or did you pretty much have to concede the matter most of the time?
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  I never really tried to exclude dogs. Sometimes folks would say, "Oh, no, this isn't a service dog." and we'd ask them to not bring the animal inside. If someone said yes, and explained a task, then let them through. I'd rather allow an animal that wasn't actually a service dog than disallow one that was. If a dog becomes disruptive, you can ask its owner to leave.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  >Did the legally allowed questions allow you to exclude the dog very often, or did you pretty much have to concede the matter most of the time? At my businesses, the instruction is to concede as I don't want to get involved in a costly legal fight. I don't see anyway for the business to come out ahead unless you have a recording and solid evidence of the person lying. I don't imagine it's any different for Costco. If anything, it's worse since they have deeper pockets to go after for people looking for a fight.