4 ms·

> It rejected Uber's claim that the company itself was not liable, because, it argued, its drivers had the status of contractors rather than employees. I feel

> It rejected Uber's claim that the company itself was not liable, because, it argued, its drivers had the status of contractors rather than employees. I feel like money would be better spent raising awareness of service dogs and dealing with fraudulent (they do call it fraud, right?) service dogs than fining Uber.

hartator 6y ago
Yes, makes no sense that anyone can register their pet as emotional support.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  The ADA does not require any registration of any service animal. Everyone is expected to accept the service animal’s owner claim that the service animal is a service animal without proof.
  - mlyle 6y ago
    If someone shows up with something that couldn't legally be a service animal (e.g. a bunny) or cannot respond adequately as to how the dog has been trained to perform a specific task, then they may have grounds to refuse to admit the dog. https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html Q3. Are emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals considered service animals under the ADA? A. No. These terms are used to describe animals that provide comfort just by being with a person. Because they have not been trained to perform a specific job or task, they do not qualify as service animals under the ADA. However, some State or local governments have laws that allow people to take emotional support animals into public places. You may check with your State and local government agencies to find out about these laws. Q7. What questions can a covered entity's employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal? A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      I’m familiar with those guidelines, but effectively, anyone can say anything, and the last sentence shows that you basically have to take their word for it (unless you want to risk getting involved in a costly legal matter). I know you don’t have to take lizards as service animals, but you do basically have to take chihuahuas or Pomeranians or pit bulls or Rottweilers or whatever as service dogs, and maybe miniature horses. > Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability. Miniature horses here: https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
      - mlyle 6y ago
        First section of your link: > Beginning on March 15, 2011, only dogs are recognized as service animals under titles II and III of the ADA And thus now miniature horses are under a much more strict regulatory regime.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - Pfhreak 6y ago
        Yes, you do have to take their word for it. If the dog is disruptive (e.g. barking or not housetrained), you can ask them to leave. The dog must be under control by the owner at all times. Dogs must (generally) remain on the floor or on the owner (and not in a shopping cart). Seating, food, drink, and other amenities are for the person, not the dog. In practice, asking these two questions and understanding the limits of where you can intervene is sufficient in 99% of cases. > you do basically have to take chihuahuas or Pomeranians or pit bulls or Rottweilers or whatever as service dogs Why is this a problem? Different breeds have different characteristics, and there are a variety of reasons to have a service dog -- from PTSD to blindness to diabetes.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- mlyle 6y ago
  Emotional support animals are not legally service animals and there is no grant of access to places of public accommodation, etc.
- adoxyz 6y ago
  Emotional support animal =/= service dog. Service dogs are specially trained for a job and cost upwards of $25-30k to train and maintain their training. Emotional support animals don't require any training and don't have nearly as many rights as a proper service dog.
  - mlyle 6y ago
    Note that someone disabled can train the service dog themselves, though-- there's no certification, requirement of specific breed, etc.
  - fastball 6y ago
    Yes but you also don't have to prove that your dog is the latter, so...
    - adoxyz 6y ago
      Many states have started implementing laws against falsely claiming service dogs. https://www.animallaw.info/content/fraudulent-service-dogs https://www.animallaw.info/content/fraudulent-service-dogs
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        I don't see how an unenforceable law would help deter people who want to claim a non service animal as a service animal. As mlyle notes above, there is no formalized certification or training process required by ADA, so anyone can claim they have PTSD and they trained their dog to be a service animal to help them with their PTSD. What is anyone going to be able to do about that?
- xahrepap 6y ago
  My understanding isn't that they're not actually "registering" anything. But rather just putting a piece of cloth they bought on amazon on their animal they and claiming it to be so. They're abusing a part of the law most people don't understand (and most companies don't want to add to the drama of even if they do). IANAL, but it was explained to me that you cannot ask basically anything about service animals, other than one thing: "What is your service animal trained to do?". Apparently, service animals are supposed to be trained to do one specific task for their owner. Otherwise, they're not actually service animals. Allowing that question allows companies to verify that the animal is actually a service animal... without offending the people who require the animal. I was talking to a friend of mine who works for a museum of sorts. These not-service animals are causing problems for them. But they are strictly forbidden to say or do anything about any pet being claimed to be a service animal. I suspect it's because they either (a) don't understand the law, and so they're trying to avoid being liable to anything, and/or (b) they don't care enough and just want to avoid the drama the fraudsters will cause. I've read comments from people with actual service animals saying they wish companies (airports, etc) would crack down on it though. Because these untrained animals are making their own very expensive animals look bad. AND the untrained animals will yip and snap and pester the real service animals.
mlyle 6y ago
Note that Uber wasn't fined. They were ordered to pay her attorney costs (which are high in part because Uber complicated the litigation) and damages to her.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
igneo676 6y ago
In practice, I'm not sure there's anything that can be done about service dog misrepresentation. When I was trained in restaurants to deal with (potential) service dogs, the extent to which I was allowed to ask any questions was "Is that a service dog?". As long as the answer was "Yes", I was to leave them alone. No questions asked. Anything else supposedly opened you to litigation Edit: Looks like there's a separate thread with additional ADA info. Tl;dr - nothing you can do to stop people misrepresenting their dogs as service animals.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

hartator 6y ago

Yes, makes no sense that anyone can register their pet as emotional support.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
The ADA does not require any registration of any service animal. Everyone is expected to accept the service animal’s owner claim that the service animal is a service animal without proof.
- mlyle 6y ago
  If someone shows up with something that couldn't legally be a service animal (e.g. a bunny) or cannot respond adequately as to how the dog has been trained to perform a specific task, then they may have grounds to refuse to admit the dog. https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html Q3. Are emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals considered service animals under the ADA? A. No. These terms are used to describe animals that provide comfort just by being with a person. Because they have not been trained to perform a specific job or task, they do not qualify as service animals under the ADA. However, some State or local governments have laws that allow people to take emotional support animals into public places. You may check with your State and local government agencies to find out about these laws. Q7. What questions can a covered entity's employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal? A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    I’m familiar with those guidelines, but effectively, anyone can say anything, and the last sentence shows that you basically have to take their word for it (unless you want to risk getting involved in a costly legal matter). I know you don’t have to take lizards as service animals, but you do basically have to take chihuahuas or Pomeranians or pit bulls or Rottweilers or whatever as service dogs, and maybe miniature horses. > Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability. Miniature horses here: https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
    - mlyle 6y ago
      First section of your link: > Beginning on March 15, 2011, only dogs are recognized as service animals under titles II and III of the ADA And thus now miniature horses are under a much more strict regulatory regime.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - Pfhreak 6y ago
      Yes, you do have to take their word for it. If the dog is disruptive (e.g. barking or not housetrained), you can ask them to leave. The dog must be under control by the owner at all times. Dogs must (generally) remain on the floor or on the owner (and not in a shopping cart). Seating, food, drink, and other amenities are for the person, not the dog. In practice, asking these two questions and understanding the limits of where you can intervene is sufficient in 99% of cases. > you do basically have to take chihuahuas or Pomeranians or pit bulls or Rottweilers or whatever as service dogs Why is this a problem? Different breeds have different characteristics, and there are a variety of reasons to have a service dog -- from PTSD to blindness to diabetes.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
mlyle 6y ago
Emotional support animals are not legally service animals and there is no grant of access to places of public accommodation, etc.
adoxyz 6y ago
Emotional support animal =/= service dog. Service dogs are specially trained for a job and cost upwards of $25-30k to train and maintain their training. Emotional support animals don't require any training and don't have nearly as many rights as a proper service dog.
- mlyle 6y ago
  Note that someone disabled can train the service dog themselves, though-- there's no certification, requirement of specific breed, etc.
- fastball 6y ago
  Yes but you also don't have to prove that your dog is the latter, so...
  - adoxyz 6y ago
    Many states have started implementing laws against falsely claiming service dogs. https://www.animallaw.info/content/fraudulent-service-dogs https://www.animallaw.info/content/fraudulent-service-dogs
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      I don't see how an unenforceable law would help deter people who want to claim a non service animal as a service animal. As mlyle notes above, there is no formalized certification or training process required by ADA, so anyone can claim they have PTSD and they trained their dog to be a service animal to help them with their PTSD. What is anyone going to be able to do about that?
xahrepap 6y ago
My understanding isn't that they're not actually "registering" anything. But rather just putting a piece of cloth they bought on amazon on their animal they and claiming it to be so. They're abusing a part of the law most people don't understand (and most companies don't want to add to the drama of even if they do). IANAL, but it was explained to me that you cannot ask basically anything about service animals, other than one thing: "What is your service animal trained to do?". Apparently, service animals are supposed to be trained to do one specific task for their owner. Otherwise, they're not actually service animals. Allowing that question allows companies to verify that the animal is actually a service animal... without offending the people who require the animal. I was talking to a friend of mine who works for a museum of sorts. These not-service animals are causing problems for them. But they are strictly forbidden to say or do anything about any pet being claimed to be a service animal. I suspect it's because they either (a) don't understand the law, and so they're trying to avoid being liable to anything, and/or (b) they don't care enough and just want to avoid the drama the fraudsters will cause. I've read comments from people with actual service animals saying they wish companies (airports, etc) would crack down on it though. Because these untrained animals are making their own very expensive animals look bad. AND the untrained animals will yip and snap and pester the real service animals.

mlyle 6y ago

Note that Uber wasn't fined. They were ordered to pay her attorney costs (which are high in part because Uber complicated the litigation) and damages to her.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

igneo676 6y ago

In practice, I'm not sure there's anything that can be done about service dog misrepresentation. When I was trained in restaurants to deal with (potential) service dogs, the extent to which I was allowed to ask any questions was "Is that a service dog?". As long as the answer was "Yes", I was to leave them alone. No questions asked. Anything else supposedly opened you to litigation Edit: Looks like there's a separate thread with additional ADA info. Tl;dr - nothing you can do to stop people misrepresenting their dogs as service animals.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]