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FWIW This is exactly why I don't use black (opinionated Python formatter) or let it get into the org. It's great until it's not and then you're kinda screwed.

FWIW This is exactly why I don't use black (opinionated Python formatter) or let it get into the org. It's great until it's not and then you're kinda screwed. My favorite example of a good balance here is React's 'dangerouslySetInnerHTML'. Clear opinion, check, but you've got the escape hatch you need.

jraph 6y ago
To be clear, you disagree with the article then, right? > It's great until it's not and then you're kinda screwed Do you have some example? Because black frees us of any argument over coding style in merge requests and this is great. It helps us focus on the important things. I've seen places where I don't quite like what black enforces, but this is very rare and it is a matter of taste and you get used to things, so meh. In contrast, standard (for JS) seems opinionated at first does not come remotely close and leaves many things without opinion, and unfortunately we don't have the same opinions and tastes, so we regularly argue over them and this is a waste of time. I don't actually quite like standard's rules but since this is what we use, I wish it were much more opinionated (over brace position in React files, line length, how obj.hasOwnProperty should be banned, how to declare methods in React components, how order imports should be sorted alphabetically, or which variable we can deconstruct…).
- Rule35 6y ago
  > Because black frees us of any argument over coding style in merge requests and this is great. It helps us focus on the important things. I hear this all the time, along with 'Juniors will be confused' but it never seems reasonable. Sometimes I line up variables: name_field_id = 0x01 address_field_id = 0x02 Sometimes I don't. I do it when the cognitive load is more on the values or the identifiers, as a group. No tool is going to help with this judgement call. Sometimes stuffing a method on one line is best because you get ten boilerplate methods on ten lines and can see the similarity, other times that's just silly and they'd be best spaced normally. Sometimes I use a rightward assignment { ... } => x because it fits the code better, leaving the reference to x right next to the next statement which will use it. > so we regularly argue over them and this is a waste of time. Strange disfunction. It sounds like your team is too opinionated to allow other opinions. > I wish it were much more opinionated Suggest turning on more rules but leaving them as suggestions. Where any reason to not follow them is enough. You do want to make sure people have some reason to make sure they aren't just leaving a mess but it's easier to get them to care about style if they have a say in what clean looks like. As an aside, part of the issue is comfort with the tooling. If I have to work in someone else's file and I hate the syntax and it's a big deal, I first run the linter to make the code look my way, make the change, run the linter to go back to their style, squash it onto my change, and rebase away the first lint. Work done, no problems dealing with someone else's style - even in the case that it would otherwise be a problem. I never have to, but because I can it doesn't bug me.
depressedpanda 6y ago
In what way will you end up kinda screwed when using black?

jraph 6y ago

To be clear, you disagree with the article then, right? > It's great until it's not and then you're kinda screwed Do you have some example? Because black frees us of any argument over coding style in merge requests and this is great. It helps us focus on the important things. I've seen places where I don't quite like what black enforces, but this is very rare and it is a matter of taste and you get used to things, so meh. In contrast, standard (for JS) seems opinionated at first does not come remotely close and leaves many things without opinion, and unfortunately we don't have the same opinions and tastes, so we regularly argue over them and this is a waste of time. I don't actually quite like standard's rules but since this is what we use, I wish it were much more opinionated (over brace position in React files, line length, how obj.hasOwnProperty should be banned, how to declare methods in React components, how order imports should be sorted alphabetically, or which variable we can deconstruct…).

Rule35 6y ago
> Because black frees us of any argument over coding style in merge requests and this is great. It helps us focus on the important things. I hear this all the time, along with 'Juniors will be confused' but it never seems reasonable. Sometimes I line up variables: name_field_id = 0x01 address_field_id = 0x02 Sometimes I don't. I do it when the cognitive load is more on the values or the identifiers, as a group. No tool is going to help with this judgement call. Sometimes stuffing a method on one line is best because you get ten boilerplate methods on ten lines and can see the similarity, other times that's just silly and they'd be best spaced normally. Sometimes I use a rightward assignment { ... } => x because it fits the code better, leaving the reference to x right next to the next statement which will use it. > so we regularly argue over them and this is a waste of time. Strange disfunction. It sounds like your team is too opinionated to allow other opinions. > I wish it were much more opinionated Suggest turning on more rules but leaving them as suggestions. Where any reason to not follow them is enough. You do want to make sure people have some reason to make sure they aren't just leaving a mess but it's easier to get them to care about style if they have a say in what clean looks like. As an aside, part of the issue is comfort with the tooling. If I have to work in someone else's file and I hate the syntax and it's a big deal, I first run the linter to make the code look my way, make the change, run the linter to go back to their style, squash it onto my change, and rebase away the first lint. Work done, no problems dealing with someone else's style - even in the case that it would otherwise be a problem. I never have to, but because I can it doesn't bug me.

depressedpanda 6y ago

In what way will you end up kinda screwed when using black?