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I don't know why people are acting like this is some victory of open source I don't know that anybody is saying that Google did anything specifically Good or J

I don't know why people are acting like this is some victory of open source I don't know that anybody is saying that Google did anything specifically Good or Just or Noble or anything. The celebratory aspect is more based on all the Bad Things that would have happened in the future if this decision had come down in favor of Oracle.

BoorishBears 6y ago
That's literally the next sentence that you intentionally omitted. And I've seen plenty of people paint Oracle as some evil boogeyman like this is some good vs evil struggle. Oracle wasn't trying to make Bad Things happen. They were seeking damages from a damaging situation, and if bad things had happened... I'd blame the patent trolls and judges that enable them. Their insanity continues regardless of the verdict after all, and there are plenty of otherwise reasonable takes ruined by their existence.
- mindcrime 6y ago
  Oracle wasn't trying to make Bad Things happen. I didn't say they were. They were seeking damages from a damaging situation, and if bad things had happened... I'd blame the patent trolls and judges that enable them. The issue at hand is about copyright not patents. And note that I'm not saying that nothing bad can, or will, ever happen again. I'm just saying that the consequences of this decision coming down the other way would have been Very Bad, which makes the current decision a Very Good Thing in general.
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    I didn't say you said that. Please read the comment again, slowly. You're saying "I've only seen people say we avoided very bad thing" I'm saying that's simply not the case, plenty of people are attaching some sort of morality to this. Edit: Case in point, the other reply to the comment is now one of those people. And patent trolls and their sympathetic judges are 100% the same people who would have frenzy fed here, many of then (most?) are also copyright trolls in the context of software. In case you didn't know.
- kps 6y ago
  > I've seen plenty of people paint Oracle as some evil boogeyman “Don't anthropomorphize the lawnmower.”
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    That's exactly it, except here I would say someone stuck their hand in the lawnmower and got away with it. But people were upset the lawnmower tried to take the hand at all
- dkjaudyeqooe 6y ago
  Are you familiar with Oracle's business practices? They are indeed evil. Google started out with the stated intent to not be evil but now they're allowing that possibly and are making good progress.
bobmalone123 6y ago
It looks like you are saying that what Google did may be bad too, but you are happy anyways because it’s good for some group of people (which may include you). This actually stifle innovation since companies will now consider that capital spent on designing APIs May be leveraged by their competitor simply stealing the API and save on that investment.
kaba0 6y ago
What bad things would have happened? This ruling specifically says that it was fair use, not that APIs are copyrightable - which seems to be the buggy man. As it currently stands, APIs absolutely fall under copyright laws.
- mindcrime 6y ago
  What bad things would have happened? It would have become MUCH more dangerous to provide an alternate implementation of someone else's library or interface, which I believe would have have a profoundly negative effect on the entire software industry. As it currently stands, APIs absolutely fall under copyright laws. Yes, but now there is a very strong precedent establishing the idea that copying those copyrighted API's is OK anyway (under Fair Use) under at least some circumstances. And based off the way the SCOTUS decision was worded, it strikes me (admittedly, IANAL) that the set of circumstances that are captured by this are pretty large.
  - kaba0 6y ago
    IANAL, but it was always true that fair use made code exempt from copyright. Wine is alive specifically because of that.
    - joshuamorton 6y ago
      This case would have changed that has the rolling differed.
- curt15 6y ago
  >As it currently stands, APIs absolutely fall under copyright laws. This opinion doesn't say so. "We shall assume, but purely for argument’s sake, that the entire Sun Java API falls within the definition of that which can be copy-righted. We shall ask instead whether Google’s use of part of that API was a “fair use."
  - kaba0 6y ago

BoorishBears 6y ago

That's literally the next sentence that you intentionally omitted. And I've seen plenty of people paint Oracle as some evil boogeyman like this is some good vs evil struggle. Oracle wasn't trying to make Bad Things happen. They were seeking damages from a damaging situation, and if bad things had happened... I'd blame the patent trolls and judges that enable them. Their insanity continues regardless of the verdict after all, and there are plenty of otherwise reasonable takes ruined by their existence.

mindcrime 6y ago
Oracle wasn't trying to make Bad Things happen. I didn't say they were. They were seeking damages from a damaging situation, and if bad things had happened... I'd blame the patent trolls and judges that enable them. The issue at hand is about copyright not patents. And note that I'm not saying that nothing bad can, or will, ever happen again. I'm just saying that the consequences of this decision coming down the other way would have been Very Bad, which makes the current decision a Very Good Thing in general.
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  I didn't say you said that. Please read the comment again, slowly. You're saying "I've only seen people say we avoided very bad thing" I'm saying that's simply not the case, plenty of people are attaching some sort of morality to this. Edit: Case in point, the other reply to the comment is now one of those people. And patent trolls and their sympathetic judges are 100% the same people who would have frenzy fed here, many of then (most?) are also copyright trolls in the context of software. In case you didn't know.
kps 6y ago
> I've seen plenty of people paint Oracle as some evil boogeyman “Don't anthropomorphize the lawnmower.”
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  That's exactly it, except here I would say someone stuck their hand in the lawnmower and got away with it. But people were upset the lawnmower tried to take the hand at all
dkjaudyeqooe 6y ago
Are you familiar with Oracle's business practices? They are indeed evil. Google started out with the stated intent to not be evil but now they're allowing that possibly and are making good progress.

bobmalone123 6y ago

It looks like you are saying that what Google did may be bad too, but you are happy anyways because it’s good for some group of people (which may include you). This actually stifle innovation since companies will now consider that capital spent on designing APIs May be leveraged by their competitor simply stealing the API and save on that investment.

kaba0 6y ago

What bad things would have happened? This ruling specifically says that it was fair use, not that APIs are copyrightable - which seems to be the buggy man. As it currently stands, APIs absolutely fall under copyright laws.

mindcrime 6y ago
What bad things would have happened? It would have become MUCH more dangerous to provide an alternate implementation of someone else's library or interface, which I believe would have have a profoundly negative effect on the entire software industry. As it currently stands, APIs absolutely fall under copyright laws. Yes, but now there is a very strong precedent establishing the idea that copying those copyrighted API's is OK anyway (under Fair Use) under at least some circumstances. And based off the way the SCOTUS decision was worded, it strikes me (admittedly, IANAL) that the set of circumstances that are captured by this are pretty large.
- kaba0 6y ago
  IANAL, but it was always true that fair use made code exempt from copyright. Wine is alive specifically because of that.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    This case would have changed that has the rolling differed.
curt15 6y ago
>As it currently stands, APIs absolutely fall under copyright laws. This opinion doesn't say so. "We shall assume, but purely for argument’s sake, that the entire Sun Java API falls within the definition of that which can be copy-righted. We shall ask instead whether Google’s use of part of that API was a “fair use."
- kaba0 6y ago