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This appears to be the "money quote": We reach the conclusion that in this case, where Google reimplemented a user interface, taking only what was needed to al

This appears to be the "money quote": We reach the conclusion that in this case, where Google reimplemented a user interface, taking only what was needed to allow users to put their accrued talents to work in a new and transformative program, Google’s copying of the Sun Java API was a fair use of that material as a matter of law. Also, while I hate to just repeat things that have already been said, I feel compelled to say "What a relief!" because this would have been a complete disaster if they had gotten this decision wrong. In fact, I'm not sure "complete disaster" is a strong enough phrase to reflect what it would have meant for the software industry if this had come down the other way. So getting this looming disaster out of the way is a tremendous relief.

BoorishBears 6y ago
I'm glad for the verdict but this is such bullshit. Google implemented exactly enough to create the illusion of letting people use their Java talents then dragged their feet with a half broken out-of-date language environment. And they did all this to save money, not some sort of noble rebellion or clever hack. > Sun offered a licensing deal of between US$30 and 50 million. Schmidt said Google would have paid for that license, but they were concerned that Sun had also requested some shared control of Android along with the fee. A pittance for Google but that vague "some control" sounds really bad right? Well fortunately there's a history here and we know from past licensing deals (J++) this control is enforcing interoperability with other Java implementation. And of course Oracle spells that out pretty easily: > Oracle states that Sun refused because Google’s intention was essentially to fork Java to a Google version of the language, and to prevent it being inter-operable with other versions, an idea which was “anathema” to the “write once run anywhere” basis of the language. Google got a cheap license and the only stipulation was "don't fuck up the Java ecosystem by having your OS run Java-but-not-really" but that was too much for them and exactly what they ended up doing! I don't know why people are acting like this is some victory of open source. Maybe a victory for open source, but championed by a greedy corporation that fragmented the Java ecosystem for years. I wish Oracle could have taken another angle here, they deserved damages from Google for this. Google literally pulled a J++ and got away with it.
- mindcrime 6y ago
  I don't know why people are acting like this is some victory of open source I don't know that anybody is saying that Google did anything specifically Good or Just or Noble or anything. The celebratory aspect is more based on all the Bad Things that would have happened in the future if this decision had come down in favor of Oracle.
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    That's literally the next sentence that you intentionally omitted. And I've seen plenty of people paint Oracle as some evil boogeyman like this is some good vs evil struggle. Oracle wasn't trying to make Bad Things happen. They were seeking damages from a damaging situation, and if bad things had happened... I'd blame the patent trolls and judges that enable them. Their insanity continues regardless of the verdict after all, and there are plenty of otherwise reasonable takes ruined by their existence.
    - mindcrime 6y ago
      Oracle wasn't trying to make Bad Things happen. I didn't say they were. They were seeking damages from a damaging situation, and if bad things had happened... I'd blame the patent trolls and judges that enable them. The issue at hand is about copyright not patents. And note that I'm not saying that nothing bad can, or will, ever happen again. I'm just saying that the consequences of this decision coming down the other way would have been Very Bad, which makes the current decision a Very Good Thing in general.
      - BoorishBears 6y ago
        I didn't say you said that. Please read the comment again, slowly. You're saying "I've only seen people say we avoided very bad thing" I'm saying that's simply not the case, plenty of people are attaching some sort of morality to this. Edit: Case in point, the other reply to the comment is now one of those people. And patent trolls and their sympathetic judges are 100% the same people who would have frenzy fed here, many of then (most?) are also copyright trolls in the context of software. In case you didn't know.

BoorishBears 6y ago

I'm glad for the verdict but this is such bullshit. Google implemented exactly enough to create the illusion of letting people use their Java talents then dragged their feet with a half broken out-of-date language environment. And they did all this to save money, not some sort of noble rebellion or clever hack. > Sun offered a licensing deal of between US$30 and 50 million. Schmidt said Google would have paid for that license, but they were concerned that Sun had also requested some shared control of Android along with the fee. A pittance for Google but that vague "some control" sounds really bad right? Well fortunately there's a history here and we know from past licensing deals (J++) this control is enforcing interoperability with other Java implementation. And of course Oracle spells that out pretty easily: > Oracle states that Sun refused because Google’s intention was essentially to fork Java to a Google version of the language, and to prevent it being inter-operable with other versions, an idea which was “anathema” to the “write once run anywhere” basis of the language. Google got a cheap license and the only stipulation was "don't fuck up the Java ecosystem by having your OS run Java-but-not-really" but that was too much for them and exactly what they ended up doing! I don't know why people are acting like this is some victory of open source. Maybe a victory for open source, but championed by a greedy corporation that fragmented the Java ecosystem for years. I wish Oracle could have taken another angle here, they deserved damages from Google for this. Google literally pulled a J++ and got away with it.

mindcrime 6y ago
I don't know why people are acting like this is some victory of open source I don't know that anybody is saying that Google did anything specifically Good or Just or Noble or anything. The celebratory aspect is more based on all the Bad Things that would have happened in the future if this decision had come down in favor of Oracle.
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  That's literally the next sentence that you intentionally omitted. And I've seen plenty of people paint Oracle as some evil boogeyman like this is some good vs evil struggle. Oracle wasn't trying to make Bad Things happen. They were seeking damages from a damaging situation, and if bad things had happened... I'd blame the patent trolls and judges that enable them. Their insanity continues regardless of the verdict after all, and there are plenty of otherwise reasonable takes ruined by their existence.
  - mindcrime 6y ago
    Oracle wasn't trying to make Bad Things happen. I didn't say they were. They were seeking damages from a damaging situation, and if bad things had happened... I'd blame the patent trolls and judges that enable them. The issue at hand is about copyright not patents. And note that I'm not saying that nothing bad can, or will, ever happen again. I'm just saying that the consequences of this decision coming down the other way would have been Very Bad, which makes the current decision a Very Good Thing in general.
    - BoorishBears 6y ago
      I didn't say you said that. Please read the comment again, slowly. You're saying "I've only seen people say we avoided very bad thing" I'm saying that's simply not the case, plenty of people are attaching some sort of morality to this. Edit: Case in point, the other reply to the comment is now one of those people. And patent trolls and their sympathetic judges are 100% the same people who would have frenzy fed here, many of then (most?) are also copyright trolls in the context of software. In case you didn't know.