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Just a little side rant on “soul” since you mentioned it in a negative sense for EVs. The “soul” term is marketing BS like the soul patch mustang logo Ford dec

by natch 6y ago

Just a little side rant on “soul” since you mentioned it in a negative sense for EVs. The “soul” term is marketing BS like the soul patch mustang logo Ford decided to sticker on to the chin of its EV. If you ever see one, look at the front. It’s totally got a soul patch. Eww. As far as engine noise or rumble and that wonderful visceral feeling of the pistons and crankshaft throwing their weight around, I would agree there is something utterly cool about that. As there is of the clip-clop of a cantering horse as well. But again, calling it “soul” is just clever deceptive words that marketing came up with. If any car has soul, it’s one where the founder poured his passion for years, nearly went bankrupt, persevered, redefined the limits, led a workforce that did the effort of a lifetime to help make the company survive and push out its most successful product that continues to be unmatched, all driven by a mission... now THAT is a story of soul. The gas car companies want to claim the word for themselves though, just because they have a nice rumble and some fire and smoke, but more because they realize they are in trouble. Fire and smoke are romantic, no doubt, but you can’t replace that with a soul patch.

Sleepytime 6y ago
You're completely wrong on this one. You chalk a vehicle's engine-as-soul up to marketing, even though it's something that can be felt without knowing anything about the vehicle or its history. Yet you think some backstory about how it's made defines it's soul? That screams marketing. Half of the mass produced things I buy have a blurb about the backstory and passion that the founders had on the box. I've had motorcycle engines with the following configurations (among many others): - 200cc single cylinder - 250cc single cylinder - 650cc single cylinder - 250cc two-stroke single - 500cc two-stroke single - 300cc parallel twin - 800cc parallel twin - 650cc v-twin - 1200cc opposed twin - 900cc inline triple - 650cc inline four - 1000c inline four Every one is completely unique in how it feels, sounds, rides, and performs. Add to that the almost innumerable number of other ancillary configurations to the above such as: - balance shaft (or lack thereof...) - valve timing - firing order - cylinder bank angle - carbeurator vs fuel injection - diesel vs gas - naturally aspirated vs supercharger vs turbocharger - nonstandard engine types like rotary, V5, W configurations, V4 - compression ratio - two vs four cycle operation - low end torque, midrange power, top end power. If the difference between electric motor personalities is a gap in the sidewalk, the difference between ICE engine personalities is the grand canyon. I've never had a vehicle with more soul than a high power two stroke with a well tuned exhaust. You can't ever convince me that an exhaust with a resonant chamber tuned like a musical instrument to harness sound waves for forced induction has no soul. I've felt it. This [2] is a good animation of how the two-stroke works. No valves, powered by explosions, and a truly musical exhaust note. There's nothing else like it on the planet, and when put in a soulful body like a dirt bike it lets you know immediately. While I disagree that the engine is the soul of he vehicle, it is definitely a huge part of it. Beigemobile econoboxes are intentionally designed to suppress the soul of the vehicle, despite how marketing likes to advertise them. Nobody's offroading or tracking their crossovers even though every commercial implies as much. The buyers of those vehicles are largely (and the commenters in this thread say as much) looking for the most generic and unsurprising vehicle possible. They are designed as much as possible to make you forget that you're in a vehicle. Even 'interesting' vehicles are being regulated into this generic future. See: Fake engine sounds being played through speakers [1]. The most different electric motors will still feel largely the same, while two mostly similar gas motors can feel completely different. Call it soul, personality, or anything else, but the future of vehicles is going to be much more bland, even if they go faster on paper. You can't ride a motorcycle and say with a straight face that gas engines have no soul. They embrace it, they don't hide from it. There's still cars out there with souls, but they are forced to blend in for fear of losing theirs as well. I don't really know where I'm going with this. I get that the metaphysical is frowned upon around these parts. But it definitely exists, even if we can't precisely define or measure it. Electric is better in pretty much every metric that can be measured. And disastrous for the things that can't. Someone mentioned in this thread mentioned that vehicles are probably going to become white labeled from foxconn as electric gains traction, and I can't help but see that as the future myself. That's what it means to sell your soul. [1] https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a7923/the-rise-of-the-fake-engine-roar-11291754/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a7923/the-rise-of-the-... [2] https://i.stack.imgur.com/Qk44Y.gif https://i.stack.imgur.com/Qk44Y.gif
- Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
  > I've had motorcycle engines with the following configurations (among many others): - 200cc single cylinder - 250cc single cylinder - 650cc single cylinder - 250cc two-stroke single - 500cc two-stroke single - 300cc parallel twin - 800cc parallel twin - 650cc v-twin - 1200cc opposed twin - 900cc inline triple - 650cc inline four - 1000c inline four But have you had one with FOUR TURBOS? https://youtu.be/NeaxbS1mNPw https://youtu.be/NeaxbS1mNPw
  - Sleepytime 6y ago
    That's bonkers, I love it! I've never actually owned a motorcycle with a turbo before. It kind of scares me. I've been caught off guard by hitting the power band on a small 2-stroke many times, I can only speculate about the turbo lag on a bigger motor and it sounds kind of scary.
- natch 6y ago
  I enjoyed your post and the rich imagery of how you described the machines. Agree with a lot of what you said (except the part where you said I was wrong, lol). I get that “soul” is a good word for the sounds and rumbles of the machinery and the sense of something alive that anyone feels when exposed to such things. And EVs lack that particular flavor of soul... just not other flavors. I agree we don’t have to mix this up with the supernatural notions of soul. One key point is I’m the one —not Tesla marketing — saying Tesla (unnamed in my comment, but I think it was clear) has soul. Tesla is not saying any such thing as far as I know. Yeah not the visceral rumbling kind, but a different kind. (Not asking you to agree with me. Good thing, huh?) Ford, on the other hand, is trying to say their EV has the “Soul of a Mustang” which I suspect both of us would agree is not really sensible as anything other than a marketing gimmick.

by natch 6y ago

Sleepytime 6y ago

You're completely wrong on this one. You chalk a vehicle's engine-as-soul up to marketing, even though it's something that can be felt without knowing anything about the vehicle or its history. Yet you think some backstory about how it's made defines it's soul? That screams marketing. Half of the mass produced things I buy have a blurb about the backstory and passion that the founders had on the box. I've had motorcycle engines with the following configurations (among many others): - 200cc single cylinder - 250cc single cylinder - 650cc single cylinder - 250cc two-stroke single - 500cc two-stroke single - 300cc parallel twin - 800cc parallel twin - 650cc v-twin - 1200cc opposed twin - 900cc inline triple - 650cc inline four - 1000c inline four Every one is completely unique in how it feels, sounds, rides, and performs. Add to that the almost innumerable number of other ancillary configurations to the above such as: - balance shaft (or lack thereof...) - valve timing - firing order - cylinder bank angle - carbeurator vs fuel injection - diesel vs gas - naturally aspirated vs supercharger vs turbocharger - nonstandard engine types like rotary, V5, W configurations, V4 - compression ratio - two vs four cycle operation - low end torque, midrange power, top end power. If the difference between electric motor personalities is a gap in the sidewalk, the difference between ICE engine personalities is the grand canyon. I've never had a vehicle with more soul than a high power two stroke with a well tuned exhaust. You can't ever convince me that an exhaust with a resonant chamber tuned like a musical instrument to harness sound waves for forced induction has no soul. I've felt it. This [2] is a good animation of how the two-stroke works. No valves, powered by explosions, and a truly musical exhaust note. There's nothing else like it on the planet, and when put in a soulful body like a dirt bike it lets you know immediately. While I disagree that the engine is the soul of he vehicle, it is definitely a huge part of it. Beigemobile econoboxes are intentionally designed to suppress the soul of the vehicle, despite how marketing likes to advertise them. Nobody's offroading or tracking their crossovers even though every commercial implies as much. The buyers of those vehicles are largely (and the commenters in this thread say as much) looking for the most generic and unsurprising vehicle possible. They are designed as much as possible to make you forget that you're in a vehicle. Even 'interesting' vehicles are being regulated into this generic future. See: Fake engine sounds being played through speakers [1]. The most different electric motors will still feel largely the same, while two mostly similar gas motors can feel completely different. Call it soul, personality, or anything else, but the future of vehicles is going to be much more bland, even if they go faster on paper. You can't ride a motorcycle and say with a straight face that gas engines have no soul. They embrace it, they don't hide from it. There's still cars out there with souls, but they are forced to blend in for fear of losing theirs as well. I don't really know where I'm going with this. I get that the metaphysical is frowned upon around these parts. But it definitely exists, even if we can't precisely define or measure it. Electric is better in pretty much every metric that can be measured. And disastrous for the things that can't. Someone mentioned in this thread mentioned that vehicles are probably going to become white labeled from foxconn as electric gains traction, and I can't help but see that as the future myself. That's what it means to sell your soul. [1] https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a7923/the-rise-of-the-fake-engine-roar-11291754/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a7923/the-rise-of-the-... [2] https://i.stack.imgur.com/Qk44Y.gif https://i.stack.imgur.com/Qk44Y.gif

Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
> I've had motorcycle engines with the following configurations (among many others): - 200cc single cylinder - 250cc single cylinder - 650cc single cylinder - 250cc two-stroke single - 500cc two-stroke single - 300cc parallel twin - 800cc parallel twin - 650cc v-twin - 1200cc opposed twin - 900cc inline triple - 650cc inline four - 1000c inline four But have you had one with FOUR TURBOS? https://youtu.be/NeaxbS1mNPw https://youtu.be/NeaxbS1mNPw
- Sleepytime 6y ago
  That's bonkers, I love it! I've never actually owned a motorcycle with a turbo before. It kind of scares me. I've been caught off guard by hitting the power band on a small 2-stroke many times, I can only speculate about the turbo lag on a bigger motor and it sounds kind of scary.
natch 6y ago
I enjoyed your post and the rich imagery of how you described the machines. Agree with a lot of what you said (except the part where you said I was wrong, lol). I get that “soul” is a good word for the sounds and rumbles of the machinery and the sense of something alive that anyone feels when exposed to such things. And EVs lack that particular flavor of soul... just not other flavors. I agree we don’t have to mix this up with the supernatural notions of soul. One key point is I’m the one —not Tesla marketing — saying Tesla (unnamed in my comment, but I think it was clear) has soul. Tesla is not saying any such thing as far as I know. Yeah not the visceral rumbling kind, but a different kind. (Not asking you to agree with me. Good thing, huh?) Ford, on the other hand, is trying to say their EV has the “Soul of a Mustang” which I suspect both of us would agree is not really sensible as anything other than a marketing gimmick.