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At least in the next decade people are going to care about range, charge speed (measured in miles per hour, in part a measure of efficiency) and software qualit

At least in the next decade people are going to care about range, charge speed (measured in miles per hour, in part a measure of efficiency) and software quality. So called super car brands will pivot to market on subjective qualities like “handling” since they can no longer complete on performance.

sokoloff 6y ago
It seems to me that the Taycan is competing quite favorably on performance and don’t see a reason to think that will go away by virtue of everyday $35K electrics having that same level of performance.
- natch 6y ago
  https://www.autoevolution.com/news/porsche-taycan-owner-complains-about-serious-charging-network-issues-in-the-uk-152276.html https://www.autoevolution.com/news/porsche-taycan-owner-comp... “they were surprised to learn that Superchargers could not be used to fill up their Taycan.” Sounds about right.
  - bin_bash 6y ago
    I think EU-spec Teslas use CCS so they would actually plug in (though you can't actually use them). You can also use Tesla destination chargers even in the US on any EV so I feel it's not totally unreasonable to be surprised by this. EDIT: I incorrectly said CHAdeMO
    - dreamcompiler 6y ago
      EU Teslas use CCS, not CHAdeMO. Which makes the fact that in the US Tesla sells a CHAdeMO adaptor but not a CCS adaptor seem very strange.
- pmorici 6y ago
  Taycan is not price competitive with Model S and won’t be performance competitive when the S plaid ships this quarter.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    Supercar brands have never been about being price-competitive (in some cases, they are even Veblen Goods). Very few people cross-shop Ferraris and Hondas. I look forward to seeing the new Tesla's Nürburgring-Nordschleife time. The progress that performance EVs are making is impressive.
    - pmorici 6y ago
      No doubt but they derive much of their prestige from their performance reputation which is why you see them marketing the Taycan’s 0-60 repeatability. As things progress the marketing department will increasingly struggle to come up with reasons why the electric incarnation of the brand lives up to its historical position as a prestigious good.
      - fomine3 6y ago
        Maybe true for Ferrari, but Porsche's reputations isn't come from just 0-60.
  - bin_bash 6y ago
    The new Corvette is as fast as the 911 for half the price but that's not stopping people from buying 911s
    - dreamcompiler 6y ago
      Another data point: Tesla Model 3 Performance version will go 0-60 in 3.1 seconds (not quite as fast as the Corvette's 2.9) for $52k; about $10k less than the Corvette.
      - 6y ago
schwartzworld 6y ago
Range could be less of an issue if charge speed is fast enough.
- throwawayboise 6y ago
  Range needs to be a few hundred miles regardless. Nobody wants to stop and recharge every 90 minutes. Range, charging speed, and availability of rapid charging points that is close to the availability of gas stations are all essential.
  - pmorici 6y ago
    Yeah that is why I think Aptera is kind of interesting they are concentrating on maximizing range through maximizing efficiency and when you pass a certain efficiency threshold integrated solar charging becomes viable. If they make it to production I can see them being successful with people who don’t need a larger car and live in places where they can’t install a dedicated charger in their parking spot.
    - VBprogrammer 6y ago
      I have a 30 year old diesel camper van which we use once every few weeks. Being a mechanically injected diesel Toyota so it's pretty reliable, the only thing that lets it down is the battery, especially over the winter when it gets used even less frequently. The obvious solution to this is a small solar panel to keep the battery topped up. It had never occurred that I'd have to be very careful to park the van in an area where it has good direct sunlight (it's only a 10w panel so anything less than direct sunlight means it's barely producing enough to support the charge controller). The street in which I usually park is south facing but has tallish buildings on both sides. The upshot of this is I can can't imagine how frustrating it would be if I was counting on the solar panels on the car contributing to its range.
  - schwartzworld 6y ago
    > Range needs to be a few hundred miles regardless No way. Who drives that much day to day? A little electric vehicle for commuting / errands doesn't need that kind of range if it can charge fast enough. Sure, some people need more than that, but if you're taking a handful of long trips per year, you can just rent a car with longer range for those purposes.

sokoloff 6y ago

It seems to me that the Taycan is competing quite favorably on performance and don’t see a reason to think that will go away by virtue of everyday $35K electrics having that same level of performance.

natch 6y ago
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/porsche-taycan-owner-complains-about-serious-charging-network-issues-in-the-uk-152276.html https://www.autoevolution.com/news/porsche-taycan-owner-comp... “they were surprised to learn that Superchargers could not be used to fill up their Taycan.” Sounds about right.
- bin_bash 6y ago
  I think EU-spec Teslas use CCS so they would actually plug in (though you can't actually use them). You can also use Tesla destination chargers even in the US on any EV so I feel it's not totally unreasonable to be surprised by this. EDIT: I incorrectly said CHAdeMO
  - dreamcompiler 6y ago
    EU Teslas use CCS, not CHAdeMO. Which makes the fact that in the US Tesla sells a CHAdeMO adaptor but not a CCS adaptor seem very strange.
pmorici 6y ago
Taycan is not price competitive with Model S and won’t be performance competitive when the S plaid ships this quarter.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  Supercar brands have never been about being price-competitive (in some cases, they are even Veblen Goods). Very few people cross-shop Ferraris and Hondas. I look forward to seeing the new Tesla's Nürburgring-Nordschleife time. The progress that performance EVs are making is impressive.
  - pmorici 6y ago
    No doubt but they derive much of their prestige from their performance reputation which is why you see them marketing the Taycan’s 0-60 repeatability. As things progress the marketing department will increasingly struggle to come up with reasons why the electric incarnation of the brand lives up to its historical position as a prestigious good.
    - fomine3 6y ago
      Maybe true for Ferrari, but Porsche's reputations isn't come from just 0-60.
- bin_bash 6y ago
  The new Corvette is as fast as the 911 for half the price but that's not stopping people from buying 911s
  - dreamcompiler 6y ago
    Another data point: Tesla Model 3 Performance version will go 0-60 in 3.1 seconds (not quite as fast as the Corvette's 2.9) for $52k; about $10k less than the Corvette.
    - 6y ago

schwartzworld 6y ago

Range could be less of an issue if charge speed is fast enough.

throwawayboise 6y ago
Range needs to be a few hundred miles regardless. Nobody wants to stop and recharge every 90 minutes. Range, charging speed, and availability of rapid charging points that is close to the availability of gas stations are all essential.
- pmorici 6y ago
  Yeah that is why I think Aptera is kind of interesting they are concentrating on maximizing range through maximizing efficiency and when you pass a certain efficiency threshold integrated solar charging becomes viable. If they make it to production I can see them being successful with people who don’t need a larger car and live in places where they can’t install a dedicated charger in their parking spot.
  - VBprogrammer 6y ago
    I have a 30 year old diesel camper van which we use once every few weeks. Being a mechanically injected diesel Toyota so it's pretty reliable, the only thing that lets it down is the battery, especially over the winter when it gets used even less frequently. The obvious solution to this is a small solar panel to keep the battery topped up. It had never occurred that I'd have to be very careful to park the van in an area where it has good direct sunlight (it's only a 10w panel so anything less than direct sunlight means it's barely producing enough to support the charge controller). The street in which I usually park is south facing but has tallish buildings on both sides. The upshot of this is I can can't imagine how frustrating it would be if I was counting on the solar panels on the car contributing to its range.
- schwartzworld 6y ago
  > Range needs to be a few hundred miles regardless No way. Who drives that much day to day? A little electric vehicle for commuting / errands doesn't need that kind of range if it can charge fast enough. Sure, some people need more than that, but if you're taking a handful of long trips per year, you can just rent a car with longer range for those purposes.