4 ms·

It's a mechanism designed to reduce economic inequality Income inequality. Totally different thing; really wealthy people can play all sorts of games with inco

by hyko 6y ago

It's a mechanism designed to reduce economic inequality Income inequality. Totally different thing; really wealthy people can play all sorts of games with income, so it’s not relevant to them. And that’s the way they like this debate framed: ignore their enormous piles of wealth and instead focus on the earnings distribution of ordinary people. If anything, it just stops you getting anywhere near to joining their ranks on an honest wage.

gbrindisi 6y ago
Really wealthy people are probably not paying much income taxes to begin with
- lr4444lr 6y ago
  That's his point. The income tax is not as effectively redistributive as a wealth tax would be.
- sumtechguy 6y ago
  Let me introduce you to the HELOC. Wealthy people do not take out mortgages. They borrow cash against their existing wealth. They then buy things with that. Then pay back against the loan. Writing it off too (as per tax law). The 'rich' have sold everyone a bill of goods how they are redoing the tax system for 'the people'. When the reality is they are writing a bunch more exemptions for themselves. You can do the same thing. Many people when they figure it out 'level up'.
  - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
    > Let me introduce you to the HELOC Home equity loans are predominantly used by middle income households [0]. The rich can borrow against securities at the call money rate, currently 2% [1]. Much cheaper than borrowing against real estate [2]. The less rich swap it to a fixed rate for added security; the richer take the rate risk. (They likely have natural hedges.) The super rich seek to borrow at or close to the SOFR [3], typically having Treasuries or similar structured products for the purpose. (If they have a business with float, that could be even cheaper than SOFR.) [0] http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.574.1538&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.574... [1] https://www.bankrate.com/rates/interest-rates/call-money.aspx https://www.bankrate.com/rates/interest-rates/call-money.asp... [2] https://www.bankrate.com/home-equity/heloc-rates/ https://www.bankrate.com/home-equity/heloc-rates/ [3] https://apps.newyorkfed.org/markets/autorates/SOFR https://apps.newyorkfed.org/markets/autorates/SOFR
    - sumtechguy 6y ago
      point taken! I like to use the HELOC as it is something most people can do.

by hyko 6y ago

gbrindisi 6y ago

Really wealthy people are probably not paying much income taxes to begin with

lr4444lr 6y ago
That's his point. The income tax is not as effectively redistributive as a wealth tax would be.
sumtechguy 6y ago
Let me introduce you to the HELOC. Wealthy people do not take out mortgages. They borrow cash against their existing wealth. They then buy things with that. Then pay back against the loan. Writing it off too (as per tax law). The 'rich' have sold everyone a bill of goods how they are redoing the tax system for 'the people'. When the reality is they are writing a bunch more exemptions for themselves. You can do the same thing. Many people when they figure it out 'level up'.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > Let me introduce you to the HELOC Home equity loans are predominantly used by middle income households [0]. The rich can borrow against securities at the call money rate, currently 2% [1]. Much cheaper than borrowing against real estate [2]. The less rich swap it to a fixed rate for added security; the richer take the rate risk. (They likely have natural hedges.) The super rich seek to borrow at or close to the SOFR [3], typically having Treasuries or similar structured products for the purpose. (If they have a business with float, that could be even cheaper than SOFR.) [0] http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.574.1538&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.574... [1] https://www.bankrate.com/rates/interest-rates/call-money.aspx https://www.bankrate.com/rates/interest-rates/call-money.asp... [2] https://www.bankrate.com/home-equity/heloc-rates/ https://www.bankrate.com/home-equity/heloc-rates/ [3] https://apps.newyorkfed.org/markets/autorates/SOFR https://apps.newyorkfed.org/markets/autorates/SOFR
  - sumtechguy 6y ago
    point taken! I like to use the HELOC as it is something most people can do.