4 ms·

I think the Australian experiment in gun policy is pretty telling. It doesn't prove these policies work and have a major effect, but it sure is as compelling an

I think the Australian experiment in gun policy is pretty telling. It doesn't prove these policies work and have a major effect, but it sure is as compelling an argument as you can make.

pedroma 6y ago
From a quick Google search (not to be snarky) it seems like they only confiscated about 650,000 guns. There's about 400,000,000 guns in America so I'm not sure how good of an argument that is. In addition, Australia is essentially an island. The US is bordered above and below with other countries that also have guns. Not to mention the amount of lost guns due to "boating accidents" that would happen if there's a gun confiscation.
- rad_gruchalski 6y ago
  > In addition, Australia is essentially an island. The US is bordered above and below with other countries that also have guns. Not to mention the amount of lost guns due to "boating accidents" that would happen if there's a gun confiscation. There’s always a reason not to try, right? It’s not like there are no illegal guns in public hands in Europe or Australia. But it’s not possible to walk in to a store and get an AR-15 on a driving license.
  - pedroma 6y ago
    Yeah, but trying to do something in our case would have to be a damned convincing to a whole lot of people. Take a wrong step and we might have a much worse capitol insurrection. Personally I don't feel this is worth doing in America at this point. We already have very well established and optimized drug smuggling operations from Mexico that would benefit very well from a complete federal-level gun ban. The actual criminals would love it being as easy to get an unregisted AR-15 as buying coke from their drug dealer. Meanwhile the private citizen in rural America would have to commit felonies to defend themselves, with the nearest police station half an hour away.
    - rad_gruchalski 6y ago
      I guess it's important to keep in mind who are the people committing gun related crimes. Are there any good write ups / statistics one can recommend which could put things in perspective?
SyzygistSix 6y ago
It always seems odd to me when people point out guns as being the difference when there are so many other differences between the US and other Western countries like poverty, access to health care, and social safety nets. Do they really think if Western Europeans or Australians were given handguns they would start shooting each other?
- croutonwagon 6y ago
  It seems to be in the goal to further polarize. Comparing Australia to the US is pretty silly on its face. Population wise, Australia wouldn't even be our largest state. Their population isnt as diverse. They dont have to throw so much of their national budget into defense etc. In fact none of the EU or other western countries budgets arent structured the same. Heck there was just a thread yesterday about Ukraine where some were admitting France and Germany realize in the wake of Trumps administration the US may not be the defender in a time of need they expect and probably should budget for increasing their defense. A lot of these EU social programs occur because the US carries the lions share of defense budget for them. And so when skirmishes happen near their borders, in Syria, in Libya, in the Ukraine etc they not only look to us, but push the US to lead these coalitions. The US is a large union of somewhat individually governed states, with some larger Federal body managing some bigger common interest things like defense. Its more apt to compare a country like France to a single state. Even most our federal programs are nothing more than regulatory or budgetary incentives to gets individual states to work together (see: education, infrastructure/roads etc). Comparing the US to a single European Union members and saying "see" the Czech Republic doesnt have this is crazy talk. I am willing to bet Iowa isnt have massive murder inceases. Even in the US, over most counties dont even have a murder, where it would be odd to have multiples or even dozens.. But painting the entire country of 300 million people with such a broad brush and using random individual nations as a poster child is in no way honest. https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/number-murders-county-54-us-counties-2014-zero-murders-69-1-murder/ https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/number-murders-county-54-u...
pseudo0 6y ago
The US saw a similar drop in the murder rate around the same time period, despite no action in terms of firearm policy. Declaring the policy to be effective based on a secular decline in murders seen broadly across the Western world seems rather disingenuous.

I think the Australian experiment in gun policy is pretty telling. It doesn't prove these policies work and have a major effect, but it sure is as compelling an argument as you can make.

pedroma 6y ago

From a quick Google search (not to be snarky) it seems like they only confiscated about 650,000 guns. There's about 400,000,000 guns in America so I'm not sure how good of an argument that is. In addition, Australia is essentially an island. The US is bordered above and below with other countries that also have guns. Not to mention the amount of lost guns due to "boating accidents" that would happen if there's a gun confiscation.

rad_gruchalski 6y ago
> In addition, Australia is essentially an island. The US is bordered above and below with other countries that also have guns. Not to mention the amount of lost guns due to "boating accidents" that would happen if there's a gun confiscation. There’s always a reason not to try, right? It’s not like there are no illegal guns in public hands in Europe or Australia. But it’s not possible to walk in to a store and get an AR-15 on a driving license.
- pedroma 6y ago
  Yeah, but trying to do something in our case would have to be a damned convincing to a whole lot of people. Take a wrong step and we might have a much worse capitol insurrection. Personally I don't feel this is worth doing in America at this point. We already have very well established and optimized drug smuggling operations from Mexico that would benefit very well from a complete federal-level gun ban. The actual criminals would love it being as easy to get an unregisted AR-15 as buying coke from their drug dealer. Meanwhile the private citizen in rural America would have to commit felonies to defend themselves, with the nearest police station half an hour away.
  - rad_gruchalski 6y ago
    I guess it's important to keep in mind who are the people committing gun related crimes. Are there any good write ups / statistics one can recommend which could put things in perspective?

SyzygistSix 6y ago

It always seems odd to me when people point out guns as being the difference when there are so many other differences between the US and other Western countries like poverty, access to health care, and social safety nets. Do they really think if Western Europeans or Australians were given handguns they would start shooting each other?

croutonwagon 6y ago
It seems to be in the goal to further polarize. Comparing Australia to the US is pretty silly on its face. Population wise, Australia wouldn't even be our largest state. Their population isnt as diverse. They dont have to throw so much of their national budget into defense etc. In fact none of the EU or other western countries budgets arent structured the same. Heck there was just a thread yesterday about Ukraine where some were admitting France and Germany realize in the wake of Trumps administration the US may not be the defender in a time of need they expect and probably should budget for increasing their defense. A lot of these EU social programs occur because the US carries the lions share of defense budget for them. And so when skirmishes happen near their borders, in Syria, in Libya, in the Ukraine etc they not only look to us, but push the US to lead these coalitions. The US is a large union of somewhat individually governed states, with some larger Federal body managing some bigger common interest things like defense. Its more apt to compare a country like France to a single state. Even most our federal programs are nothing more than regulatory or budgetary incentives to gets individual states to work together (see: education, infrastructure/roads etc). Comparing the US to a single European Union members and saying "see" the Czech Republic doesnt have this is crazy talk. I am willing to bet Iowa isnt have massive murder inceases. Even in the US, over most counties dont even have a murder, where it would be odd to have multiples or even dozens.. But painting the entire country of 300 million people with such a broad brush and using random individual nations as a poster child is in no way honest. https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/number-murders-county-54-us-counties-2014-zero-murders-69-1-murder/ https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/number-murders-county-54-u...

pseudo0 6y ago

The US saw a similar drop in the murder rate around the same time period, despite no action in terms of firearm policy. Declaring the policy to be effective based on a secular decline in murders seen broadly across the Western world seems rather disingenuous.