6 ms·

isn'it a bit of an exaggeration to claim that Netflix is creating a common European culture? First of all Netflix productions are not great in general, there a

isn'it a bit of an exaggeration to claim that Netflix is creating a common European culture? First of all Netflix productions are not great in general, there are a few very good ones, the rest is just mediocre. Secondly, Netflix is not the only streaming service offering the same content. Last, but not least, in Europe we have been watching European shows since forever on national and private television networks. Two of the most popular shows ever in Italy are Fantomas, which is French, and Derrick, a German crime series started in 1974 that lasted ~~14~~ (TYPO! it was 24!) seasons. We've always translated and dubbed foreign content, Netflix hasn't really changed anything in that regard. We also watch a lot of national productions, like for example in Italy Gomorra is very popular and highly rated (there are many others) European movies in theaters have also been quite popular over the years, it used to be more popular until the 80s, but French cinema for example is still producing great movies (I think everybody knows who Luc Besson is). The Italian actor Carlo Pedersoli (Bud Spencer) was so popular in Germany that when he died German Post offices released a series of ten stamps as a sign of gratitude and respect. Besides, some popular American productions are remakes of European content: Forbydelsen (Danish) -> The killing ~~Humans (Sweden) -> Real humans~~ (not American) The Returned (France) -> The Returned

jonathanstrange 6y ago
Just a quick nitpick, the Swedish series is Real Humans (Äkta Människor) and Humans is a British production. There was also a (much dumber) Russian action series on the same topic called Better than us on Netflix. To anyone who hasn't seen Humans I'd like to recommend it. Purely subjectively speaking, it was one of the best sci fi series I've ever seen.
- africanboy 6y ago
  Thanks for the correction! I got the copy/paste backwards. I've watched Äkta Människor and loved it even though I've watched it in Swedish, without subtitles. Highly reccomended.
- pessimizer 6y ago
  I have to disagree with the evaluation of Better Than Us - it's problem isn't that it was dumb, it's that it was too long. Humans was the dumb one. Humans literally had a robot grappling with lesbianism. In that one, the androids were just awful middle-class British people, and they cast based on the actors looking like the actors from Äkta Människor, which is the surest sign of a bad remake.
starfallg 6y ago
>isn'it a bit of an exaggeration to claim that Netflix is creating a common European culture It's the Economist after all. I mean, I loved reading the Economist when I travelled every week as it's always available on flight and trains. You just have to accept the pretentious tone as a part of its "brand". It's extra funny when you consider dodgy track record in actually predicting things correctly.
anthk 6y ago
Also, Komissar Rex.
- africanboy 6y ago
  Of course! It was never as popular as Derrick, but it became so popular in the 90s that in Italy a remake of 8 season was produced. Also Der Alte (different seasons had different names in Italy) with over 400 episodes.
vidarh 6y ago
I think the difference is the volume. Previously locally produced content had to be sold into each market, and was limited by the broadcast schedule of relatively small numbers of channels. Sure, I grew up with childrens programming from across Europe - including East Bloc countries - and some shows like Derrick were popular in Norway too, but the limited broadcast schedule meant there was only ever going to be a small number of shows from most countries. When Netflix produces content itself, or contracts it, the cost of putting it into other markets is reduced to translation, and they have a strong incentive to maximise the value of their investment by making the content available more broadly, and they don't have the same limitation of broadcast schedules limiting what they can make available. I'm Norwegian. I've lived in the UK 21 years. I've seen more Scandinavian content pop up on my UK Netflix subscription in the last couple of years than on the regular UK TV channels for the last 21. To what extent people get shown or find content from other European countries is another matter - my Netflix homepage is still very much dominated by US and UK series.
- africanboy 6y ago
  Not to disagree with what you said, but my point was that Netflix is not "creating a common European culture" it's simply broadcasting content, more than it was possible before, but it wasn't something unheard of in Europe and it doesn't really spread "culture" (us Italians are not like the characters of Gomorra and German policemen are not like Derrick, that's simply entertainment) I think Schengen and herasmus program were much more important for the common European culture and to build a sense of belonging to a shared sovra national space where we are all Europeans. Also most western Europe has been in close contact since the end of WW2, developing those relationships that led them to the first treaties in 1957 and us where we are today. We don't need Netflix for that.
  - vidarh 6y ago
    That Netflix isn't intending to, and that we don't need it doesn't mean it isn't contributing to it. I don't see what Schengen had to do with anything - lack of passport checks is a nice convenience but that is all. Freedom of movement, sure, but that is separate from Schengen. And I think dismissing light entertainment as not being culture is pointlessly elitist. A whole lot of culture is light entertainment, and often what spreads to the most people. Most of Western Europe has close ties going back much further, but close ties does not translate immediately to the extent of shared culture diffusing through populations. Not least because there is a stark difference between ties that are confined to a subset of the populations vs. those that are more widely shared. I live in the UK, and have done so for 21 years, but come from Norway, and one of the first things I realised on moving here was how superficial cultural exchange often is - most people have no conception what it's like to live in another country. Even one they in many cases have often been to as a visitor. And e.g. shared entertainment is part of that. Growing up watching different things, talking about different things etc. contributes to cultural differences even decades later. I still experience people bringing up cultural references that they share that I don't for that reason. I agree with you regarding Erasmus for that reason, but I also think that seeing more shared programming will matter more than you think in giving more people shared reference points because it is a lasting and ongoing part of people's lives. Irrespective of Netflix' motivations.
BlueTemplar 6y ago
> First of all Netflix productions are not great in general, there are a few very good ones, the rest is just mediocre. What you describe is much better than the average situation where 80% of everything is shit.
- africanboy 6y ago
  I like to be polite in public, but what you described is the unpolite version of what I think of Netflix lately. In other words: primevideo is cheaper and has a much better catalog. My ISP also offer the same things I can find on Netflix for free with the subscription.
  - BlueTemplar 6y ago
    I'm just using the usual quote about these matters, which posits that the quality distribution is such that the overwhelming majority of the items are below average ("long tail distribution"). Meanwhile your claim is very different from mine : you posit a very different distribution, where the overwhelming majority of items is around average ! ("the rest is just mediocre" => assuming there are still a few very bad ones that you don't mention, this would correspond to something like a gaussian distribution.)
    - africanboy 6y ago
      > the quality distribution is such that the overwhelming majority of the items are below average ("long tail distribution"). > your claim is very different from mine: where the overwhelming majority of items is around It's only a matter of barrier to entry. The best things on Netflix are non Netflix productions (with some rare noticeable exception), because the barrier to entry for them is so low that everything kinda sucks, in different ways, but it does (long tail distribution) when they have to buy (or rent) something to put it on their catalog (the overwhelming majority of the items on their platform) , the copyright holder is going to lure Netflix in with some very good title and definitely many average (slightly above or below) title, titles that can sometimes also benefit from the power of nostalgia, but will also put in the package some bad and definitely some very bad title, so that they can profit from dead weights. In that case I assume something more similar to a gaussian distribution. > assuming there are still a few very bad ones that you don't mention You asked for it. https://www.netflix.com/it/title/80211634 https://www.netflix.com/it/title/80211634 https://www.netflix.com/it/title/81003393 https://www.netflix.com/it/title/81003393 https://www.netflix.com/it/title/81005220 https://www.netflix.com/it/title/81005220 and don't miss this one https://www.netflix.com/it-en/title/80185764 https://www.netflix.com/it-en/title/80185764 (7% on rottentomatoes)

jonathanstrange 6y ago

Just a quick nitpick, the Swedish series is Real Humans (Äkta Människor) and Humans is a British production. There was also a (much dumber) Russian action series on the same topic called Better than us on Netflix. To anyone who hasn't seen Humans I'd like to recommend it. Purely subjectively speaking, it was one of the best sci fi series I've ever seen.

africanboy 6y ago
Thanks for the correction! I got the copy/paste backwards. I've watched Äkta Människor and loved it even though I've watched it in Swedish, without subtitles. Highly reccomended.
pessimizer 6y ago
I have to disagree with the evaluation of Better Than Us - it's problem isn't that it was dumb, it's that it was too long. Humans was the dumb one. Humans literally had a robot grappling with lesbianism. In that one, the androids were just awful middle-class British people, and they cast based on the actors looking like the actors from Äkta Människor, which is the surest sign of a bad remake.

starfallg 6y ago

>isn'it a bit of an exaggeration to claim that Netflix is creating a common European culture It's the Economist after all. I mean, I loved reading the Economist when I travelled every week as it's always available on flight and trains. You just have to accept the pretentious tone as a part of its "brand". It's extra funny when you consider dodgy track record in actually predicting things correctly.

anthk 6y ago

Also, Komissar Rex.

africanboy 6y ago
Of course! It was never as popular as Derrick, but it became so popular in the 90s that in Italy a remake of 8 season was produced. Also Der Alte (different seasons had different names in Italy) with over 400 episodes.

vidarh 6y ago

I think the difference is the volume. Previously locally produced content had to be sold into each market, and was limited by the broadcast schedule of relatively small numbers of channels. Sure, I grew up with childrens programming from across Europe - including East Bloc countries - and some shows like Derrick were popular in Norway too, but the limited broadcast schedule meant there was only ever going to be a small number of shows from most countries. When Netflix produces content itself, or contracts it, the cost of putting it into other markets is reduced to translation, and they have a strong incentive to maximise the value of their investment by making the content available more broadly, and they don't have the same limitation of broadcast schedules limiting what they can make available. I'm Norwegian. I've lived in the UK 21 years. I've seen more Scandinavian content pop up on my UK Netflix subscription in the last couple of years than on the regular UK TV channels for the last 21. To what extent people get shown or find content from other European countries is another matter - my Netflix homepage is still very much dominated by US and UK series.

africanboy 6y ago
Not to disagree with what you said, but my point was that Netflix is not "creating a common European culture" it's simply broadcasting content, more than it was possible before, but it wasn't something unheard of in Europe and it doesn't really spread "culture" (us Italians are not like the characters of Gomorra and German policemen are not like Derrick, that's simply entertainment) I think Schengen and herasmus program were much more important for the common European culture and to build a sense of belonging to a shared sovra national space where we are all Europeans. Also most western Europe has been in close contact since the end of WW2, developing those relationships that led them to the first treaties in 1957 and us where we are today. We don't need Netflix for that.
- vidarh 6y ago
  That Netflix isn't intending to, and that we don't need it doesn't mean it isn't contributing to it. I don't see what Schengen had to do with anything - lack of passport checks is a nice convenience but that is all. Freedom of movement, sure, but that is separate from Schengen. And I think dismissing light entertainment as not being culture is pointlessly elitist. A whole lot of culture is light entertainment, and often what spreads to the most people. Most of Western Europe has close ties going back much further, but close ties does not translate immediately to the extent of shared culture diffusing through populations. Not least because there is a stark difference between ties that are confined to a subset of the populations vs. those that are more widely shared. I live in the UK, and have done so for 21 years, but come from Norway, and one of the first things I realised on moving here was how superficial cultural exchange often is - most people have no conception what it's like to live in another country. Even one they in many cases have often been to as a visitor. And e.g. shared entertainment is part of that. Growing up watching different things, talking about different things etc. contributes to cultural differences even decades later. I still experience people bringing up cultural references that they share that I don't for that reason. I agree with you regarding Erasmus for that reason, but I also think that seeing more shared programming will matter more than you think in giving more people shared reference points because it is a lasting and ongoing part of people's lives. Irrespective of Netflix' motivations.

BlueTemplar 6y ago

> First of all Netflix productions are not great in general, there are a few very good ones, the rest is just mediocre. What you describe is much better than the average situation where 80% of everything is shit.

africanboy 6y ago
I like to be polite in public, but what you described is the unpolite version of what I think of Netflix lately. In other words: primevideo is cheaper and has a much better catalog. My ISP also offer the same things I can find on Netflix for free with the subscription.
- BlueTemplar 6y ago
  I'm just using the usual quote about these matters, which posits that the quality distribution is such that the overwhelming majority of the items are below average ("long tail distribution"). Meanwhile your claim is very different from mine : you posit a very different distribution, where the overwhelming majority of items is around average ! ("the rest is just mediocre" => assuming there are still a few very bad ones that you don't mention, this would correspond to something like a gaussian distribution.)
  - africanboy 6y ago
    > the quality distribution is such that the overwhelming majority of the items are below average ("long tail distribution"). > your claim is very different from mine: where the overwhelming majority of items is around It's only a matter of barrier to entry. The best things on Netflix are non Netflix productions (with some rare noticeable exception), because the barrier to entry for them is so low that everything kinda sucks, in different ways, but it does (long tail distribution) when they have to buy (or rent) something to put it on their catalog (the overwhelming majority of the items on their platform) , the copyright holder is going to lure Netflix in with some very good title and definitely many average (slightly above or below) title, titles that can sometimes also benefit from the power of nostalgia, but will also put in the package some bad and definitely some very bad title, so that they can profit from dead weights. In that case I assume something more similar to a gaussian distribution. > assuming there are still a few very bad ones that you don't mention You asked for it. https://www.netflix.com/it/title/80211634 https://www.netflix.com/it/title/80211634 https://www.netflix.com/it/title/81003393 https://www.netflix.com/it/title/81003393 https://www.netflix.com/it/title/81005220 https://www.netflix.com/it/title/81005220 and don't miss this one https://www.netflix.com/it-en/title/80185764 https://www.netflix.com/it-en/title/80185764 (7% on rottentomatoes)