13 ms·

> Even without root, Tasker can automate every single aspect of the OS - Want to send and receive WhatsApp messages over email?[1], Want better accessibility e.

by nl 6y ago

> Even without root, Tasker can automate every single aspect of the OS - Want to send and receive WhatsApp messages over email?[1], Want better accessibility e.g. Voice summary of news?[2], Want a butt triggered pomodoro timer?[3]. Termux runs a Linux container and it can run complete Linux distribution inside it with PRoot[4]. Best of all, Tasker & Termux can communicate with each other for endless possibilities. Does anyone actually care about any of these things? I'm a long time Android user and I've installed both Tasker and Termux. Never found anything useful for them and uninstalled them. I work in a software company, with lots of people who experiment with home automation etc - the kinds of things where this could be useful. Instead everyone uses RPis, and controls them with apps from their iPhones. I'm sure there are a few people who actually do this stuff. But in my experience they are the kinds of people who enjoy working around barriers, so would find a different way to achieve the same things anyway.

nindalf 6y ago
> Does anyone actually care about any of these things? On HN, sure. The other 3.6 billion smartphone users out there? No. The top voted opinions on HN are niche and don't represent the general population in any way. You can see this effect on other threads. Here are a few classic examples. - Everyone on HN hates Facebook, and yet 2 billion+ people use it every day. - Privacy is a paramount concern on HN, more important than anything else, and yet billions of people don't care as long as their dick pics are safe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRWxk7o-QlI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRWxk7o-QlI). - HN users hate ads and would happily pay for the privilege of eliminating ads. In the real world? Youtube has 2 billion monthly active users, only 1% of whom pay to eliminate ads. - The ideal HN smartphone is one that has software support for years, is rootable, can have it's OS changed on a whim, can install any app from any app store. Hardware should be modular, with a swappable battery, camera etc. So Fairphone, basically. Units sold - 200k in 5 years. iPhone, the exact opposite of this in every respect (except software support) - 1 Billion in 5 years. What I've said is so obvious it's self evident. But now and then people do get surprised and maybe annoyed when they find the world doesn't reflect the gospel truth preached on HN. At the time of this writing, your comment is actually downvoted ... for implying that the general population might not be Tasker-Termux installing, life automating power users.
- Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
  I agree about the HN bubble, but not every comment has to reflect the larger market; The comment is about the power users and it reflects the significant portion of HN. Just like content on Computer Science is preferred on HN, it doesn't mean just because not everyone is a CSE/Computer Scientist in the real world, CS content is not valuable.
  - oblio 6y ago
    The problem with this logic is that with millions of people, everything can happen. When someone says "never/no one" in a casual conversation, they don't mean "it's physically and mathematically impossible for this to happen, I'm sure the chance of this is 0%". They mean: "the vast majority of people". Techie communities can be tiresome with all the nitpicking. I swear that if I posted a comment saying "nobody puts their dick in the vacuum cleaner shaft" while discussing the best vacuum cleaner design, somebody would feel the need to object and say they did it. https://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Feb-17.html https://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Feb-17.html
  - nindalf 6y ago
    The issue is not that HN users have different preferences or that they signal those preferences. The issue is when they are surprised and annoyed that the ordinary folks in the real world don't make the same superior choices that they do. Why do they keep buying iPhones instead of Fairphones? Why do they keep using ad supported services instead of paying for it? Why do hundreds of millions of them eat at McDonald's?! This lack of understanding of the general population is the issue.
  - nl 6y ago
    My argument is more subtle than that. I'm arguing that Tasker/Termux users aren't really your normal power users at all. Instead they are hackers, and would be satisfied by any form of stitching bits together to accomplish some task. If Tasker/Termus didn't exist they'd be equally happy accomplishing the same things with custom hardware sensors or carrying a RPi around or whatever. They aren't actually doing anything useful with the software that couldn't be accomplished slightly less conveniently in other ways - the joy of the hack is the accomplishment. When you view it like this, the market satisfaction argument looks different.
anhner 6y ago
You got downvoted but you speak the truth.
oftenwrong 6y ago
What's wrong with working around barriers? I find Tasker useful for fixing things I don't like about my phone that are otherwise beyond my ability to fix. For example... 1. By default my phone remembers the last media volume level used with headphones. This does make some sense, but it is easy to accidentally get maximum volume blasted in your ear. I use Tasker to automatically reset the volume to a safe level when I plug in my headphones. 2. I find that the automatic screen brightness on my phone doesn't work well at all. In a dark room, it would not set the brightness to its minimum level. It also would not turn the brightness to maximum even in direct, bright sunlight. I prefer to just set the brightness manually, and avoid the poor guesses of the automatic brightness algorithm (which is claimed to be "smart" and aware of my preferences). The only problem with manual brightness control is that it's common to end up in bright sunlight with a very dim screen. It is impossible to use the phone under such conditions. So, I used Tasker to add a gesture. If I shake my phone relatively hard, twice, in an up and down motion, it sets the screen to maximum brightness. I use this all the time.
- acdha 6y ago
  Your comments are interesting in terms of the iOS/Android comparison: both of those are things which just work on iOS without needing to find and configure a separate app. This dynamic shows up constantly in these discussions because HN is full of people who enjoy tinkering as a hobby and have strong opinions about things should work whereas from the perspective of most normal people it’s easier to pay $400 for a noticeably faster iOS device rather than spending time puttering around trying to find the right combination of apps to compensate for an unmotivated device vendor and hoping that you didn’t just install malware in the process.
  - oftenwrong 6y ago
    That is true. I prefer an experience that's more fiddly and annoying overall, but that can be customised to fit my preferred usage if necessary. I would not be happy on an iPhone, stuck with what they have chosen. I like to install my own launcher and such. That's why I use GNU/Linux on the desktop, and Android on my phone. Both of these ecosystems are very fragmented as well. For example, my old Android phone had neither of the problems I mentioned.

by nl 6y ago

nindalf 6y ago

> Does anyone actually care about any of these things? On HN, sure. The other 3.6 billion smartphone users out there? No. The top voted opinions on HN are niche and don't represent the general population in any way. You can see this effect on other threads. Here are a few classic examples. - Everyone on HN hates Facebook, and yet 2 billion+ people use it every day. - Privacy is a paramount concern on HN, more important than anything else, and yet billions of people don't care as long as their dick pics are safe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRWxk7o-QlI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRWxk7o-QlI). - HN users hate ads and would happily pay for the privilege of eliminating ads. In the real world? Youtube has 2 billion monthly active users, only 1% of whom pay to eliminate ads. - The ideal HN smartphone is one that has software support for years, is rootable, can have it's OS changed on a whim, can install any app from any app store. Hardware should be modular, with a swappable battery, camera etc. So Fairphone, basically. Units sold - 200k in 5 years. iPhone, the exact opposite of this in every respect (except software support) - 1 Billion in 5 years. What I've said is so obvious it's self evident. But now and then people do get surprised and maybe annoyed when they find the world doesn't reflect the gospel truth preached on HN. At the time of this writing, your comment is actually downvoted ... for implying that the general population might not be Tasker-Termux installing, life automating power users.

Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
I agree about the HN bubble, but not every comment has to reflect the larger market; The comment is about the power users and it reflects the significant portion of HN. Just like content on Computer Science is preferred on HN, it doesn't mean just because not everyone is a CSE/Computer Scientist in the real world, CS content is not valuable.
- oblio 6y ago
  The problem with this logic is that with millions of people, everything can happen. When someone says "never/no one" in a casual conversation, they don't mean "it's physically and mathematically impossible for this to happen, I'm sure the chance of this is 0%". They mean: "the vast majority of people". Techie communities can be tiresome with all the nitpicking. I swear that if I posted a comment saying "nobody puts their dick in the vacuum cleaner shaft" while discussing the best vacuum cleaner design, somebody would feel the need to object and say they did it. https://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Feb-17.html https://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Feb-17.html
- nindalf 6y ago
  The issue is not that HN users have different preferences or that they signal those preferences. The issue is when they are surprised and annoyed that the ordinary folks in the real world don't make the same superior choices that they do. Why do they keep buying iPhones instead of Fairphones? Why do they keep using ad supported services instead of paying for it? Why do hundreds of millions of them eat at McDonald's?! This lack of understanding of the general population is the issue.
- nl 6y ago
  My argument is more subtle than that. I'm arguing that Tasker/Termux users aren't really your normal power users at all. Instead they are hackers, and would be satisfied by any form of stitching bits together to accomplish some task. If Tasker/Termus didn't exist they'd be equally happy accomplishing the same things with custom hardware sensors or carrying a RPi around or whatever. They aren't actually doing anything useful with the software that couldn't be accomplished slightly less conveniently in other ways - the joy of the hack is the accomplishment. When you view it like this, the market satisfaction argument looks different.

anhner 6y ago

You got downvoted but you speak the truth.

oftenwrong 6y ago

What's wrong with working around barriers? I find Tasker useful for fixing things I don't like about my phone that are otherwise beyond my ability to fix. For example... 1. By default my phone remembers the last media volume level used with headphones. This does make some sense, but it is easy to accidentally get maximum volume blasted in your ear. I use Tasker to automatically reset the volume to a safe level when I plug in my headphones. 2. I find that the automatic screen brightness on my phone doesn't work well at all. In a dark room, it would not set the brightness to its minimum level. It also would not turn the brightness to maximum even in direct, bright sunlight. I prefer to just set the brightness manually, and avoid the poor guesses of the automatic brightness algorithm (which is claimed to be "smart" and aware of my preferences). The only problem with manual brightness control is that it's common to end up in bright sunlight with a very dim screen. It is impossible to use the phone under such conditions. So, I used Tasker to add a gesture. If I shake my phone relatively hard, twice, in an up and down motion, it sets the screen to maximum brightness. I use this all the time.

acdha 6y ago
Your comments are interesting in terms of the iOS/Android comparison: both of those are things which just work on iOS without needing to find and configure a separate app. This dynamic shows up constantly in these discussions because HN is full of people who enjoy tinkering as a hobby and have strong opinions about things should work whereas from the perspective of most normal people it’s easier to pay $400 for a noticeably faster iOS device rather than spending time puttering around trying to find the right combination of apps to compensate for an unmotivated device vendor and hoping that you didn’t just install malware in the process.
- oftenwrong 6y ago
  That is true. I prefer an experience that's more fiddly and annoying overall, but that can be customised to fit my preferred usage if necessary. I would not be happy on an iPhone, stuck with what they have chosen. I like to install my own launcher and such. That's why I use GNU/Linux on the desktop, and Android on my phone. Both of these ecosystems are very fragmented as well. For example, my old Android phone had neither of the problems I mentioned.