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Tesla cars (for example) already interact with humans without killing them at a greater rate than human drivers. That is not the bar to pass here, as robot dri

Tesla cars (for example) already interact with humans without killing them at a greater rate than human drivers. That is not the bar to pass here, as robot drivers have already surpassed it. L5 is way beyond that.

thebruce87m 6y ago
Is there any independent data to support the claim in your first paragraph?
- grey-area 6y ago
  I don’t think so, and it would be hard to collect truly independent data on miles driven for example, though the data from Tesla is pretty convincing and no public data I can find contradicts it. They’re not safe in all conditions and I wouldn’t personally pay for their ‘FSD’ product but they’re safer than the average human in average conditions (a very low bar).
  - rcxdude 6y ago
    The data says Tesla's autopilot is in the safest conditions better than the average human in average conditions. It does not say that it is safer than the average human in the safest conditions, nor that it is safer when in average conditions.
Marazan 6y ago
Not in "full self driving" mode. Because they don't have a full self driving mode.
legolas2412 6y ago
So many things to unpack here. Please keep in mind that Tesla and Musk are masters of misrepresenting statistics out of context. So, when you said that "Tesla cars" kill humans at a lower rate than "human drivers", could you provide a source for that? Or did you mean the regular claim by Musk about teslas being safer by 100% than an average driver, which means that an average tesla car while running autopilot in almost always highway conditions in almost always sunny conditions has lower fatalities than the average human driver, who will skew older and more accident prone, driving on average roads, in average conditions, with the average 10 year old car with less safety features. Never in any of these statements have i seen any discussion of pedestrians deaths, but it makes sense right? How many pedestrians are on highways where autopilot is mostly used.

thebruce87m 6y ago

Is there any independent data to support the claim in your first paragraph?

grey-area 6y ago
I don’t think so, and it would be hard to collect truly independent data on miles driven for example, though the data from Tesla is pretty convincing and no public data I can find contradicts it. They’re not safe in all conditions and I wouldn’t personally pay for their ‘FSD’ product but they’re safer than the average human in average conditions (a very low bar).
- rcxdude 6y ago
  The data says Tesla's autopilot is in the safest conditions better than the average human in average conditions. It does not say that it is safer than the average human in the safest conditions, nor that it is safer when in average conditions.

Marazan 6y ago

Not in "full self driving" mode. Because they don't have a full self driving mode.

legolas2412 6y ago

So many things to unpack here. Please keep in mind that Tesla and Musk are masters of misrepresenting statistics out of context. So, when you said that "Tesla cars" kill humans at a lower rate than "human drivers", could you provide a source for that? Or did you mean the regular claim by Musk about teslas being safer by 100% than an average driver, which means that an average tesla car while running autopilot in almost always highway conditions in almost always sunny conditions has lower fatalities than the average human driver, who will skew older and more accident prone, driving on average roads, in average conditions, with the average 10 year old car with less safety features. Never in any of these statements have i seen any discussion of pedestrians deaths, but it makes sense right? How many pedestrians are on highways where autopilot is mostly used.