3 ms·

I went to public school in Canada, and my wife did the same in the US. Neither of us had a kindergarten experience with desks and assignments - it was much lik

I went to public school in Canada, and my wife did the same in the US. Neither of us had a kindergarten experience with desks and assignments - it was much like what you describe your experience as. Perhaps your fancy kindergarten wasn’t as different from public school as you thought?

Spooky23 6y ago
If you go to a suburban district, the psycho parents demand reading in kindergarten... one parent in my sons class expected her kid to read Harry Potter in grade 1. I went to a NYC public school in the 80s. We didn’t even start phonics until grade 1.
- maxwelljoslyn 6y ago
  > One parent in my sons class expected her kid to read Harry Potter in grade 1. Some first-graders are capable of that -- but yes, certainly not a reasonable baseline expectation for that age.
  - tetromino_ 6y ago
    When I was 6 years old, I started reading my family's collection of Jules Verne in Russian translation (I chose the books whose covers looked interesting). I was a reasonably smart kid, but certainly not a genius, not exceptionally talented. If you find it unreasonable to expect a smart first grader to be able to read Harry Potter, then my reaction is that either written English is unexpectedly much more difficult to learn for a child compared to written Russian, or American parents and teachers are doing an unexpectedly bad job of teaching it.
    - maxwelljoslyn 6y ago
      I don't find it unreasonable for a smart first grader, or even kindergartner. I'm unsure whether it is doable for a typical one. I based my earlier response on what I knew from others as children. But, seeing your response and those of others in this thread, perhaps I was mistaken. Then again: >American parents and teachers are doing an unexpectedly bad job of teaching it. I can't speak for American parents but American teachers aren't so good in general.
    - Spooky23 6y ago
      Answer: It depends. When I went to school, we began significant reading in grade 1, when I was 6. NYC public school kindergarten at that time was half day, and focused on social activity, counting, letter recognition, etc. My younger brother was effectively reading on his own at age 4 before kindergarten, mainly because my sister was a huge reader and they read together constantly. She also has a natural talent for teaching. Remember that kids are very different. My son was born in early January, he has a classmate born in early December. Teachers have to work with both extremes, as well as kids in various family situations that affect social development. There are also brain development factors that apply and don't necessarily level out until 7/8 years old. My beef up the thread was that some hyper-vigilant parents expect teachers to achieve the possible, but improbably, because they have decided that little Johnny is a genius. The same people will pay $10,000 for soccer leagues, etc.
- jacobolus 6y ago
  If you want kids to read, they have to start with lots of listening. The cornerstone of language ability is hearing lots and lots of varied speech, and the easiest way to get it is by hearing books read aloud. Reading in English (i.e. decoding written symbols into pronounced words) is not that hard a skill for typical kids to learn at age 5 if they have done a few years of listening to books read aloud every day, but it does require direct focus for like 15 minutes per day for 6–12 months, and one-on-one help from an adult makes that a lot easier.
tablespoon 6y ago
> I went to public school in Canada, and my wife did the same in the US. Neither of us had a kindergarten experience with desks and assignments - it was much like what you describe your experience as. > Perhaps your fancy kindergarten wasn’t as different from public school as you thought? I went to US public school for kindergarten and first grade, then a Montessori school for grades 2-5. I don't recall desks in kindergarten, but they were definitely out in full force for first grade. The Montessori school didn't have desks for every student, and it sounds similar in some of the other ways: no assignments, more hands-on learning, more play (think we got something like an hour of recess), etc. There's also likely regional variation. I have a friend who moved to SV, but moved to Redwood City because he thought the public schools closer to San Jose were too cut throat and competitive, and some parents sent their kids to cram schools. I wouldn't be surprised of that kind of attitude rubbed off on the kindergartens and made their curriculums too aggressively academic.

Spooky23 6y ago

If you go to a suburban district, the psycho parents demand reading in kindergarten... one parent in my sons class expected her kid to read Harry Potter in grade 1. I went to a NYC public school in the 80s. We didn’t even start phonics until grade 1.

maxwelljoslyn 6y ago
> One parent in my sons class expected her kid to read Harry Potter in grade 1. Some first-graders are capable of that -- but yes, certainly not a reasonable baseline expectation for that age.
- tetromino_ 6y ago
  When I was 6 years old, I started reading my family's collection of Jules Verne in Russian translation (I chose the books whose covers looked interesting). I was a reasonably smart kid, but certainly not a genius, not exceptionally talented. If you find it unreasonable to expect a smart first grader to be able to read Harry Potter, then my reaction is that either written English is unexpectedly much more difficult to learn for a child compared to written Russian, or American parents and teachers are doing an unexpectedly bad job of teaching it.
  - maxwelljoslyn 6y ago
    I don't find it unreasonable for a smart first grader, or even kindergartner. I'm unsure whether it is doable for a typical one. I based my earlier response on what I knew from others as children. But, seeing your response and those of others in this thread, perhaps I was mistaken. Then again: >American parents and teachers are doing an unexpectedly bad job of teaching it. I can't speak for American parents but American teachers aren't so good in general.
  - Spooky23 6y ago
    Answer: It depends. When I went to school, we began significant reading in grade 1, when I was 6. NYC public school kindergarten at that time was half day, and focused on social activity, counting, letter recognition, etc. My younger brother was effectively reading on his own at age 4 before kindergarten, mainly because my sister was a huge reader and they read together constantly. She also has a natural talent for teaching. Remember that kids are very different. My son was born in early January, he has a classmate born in early December. Teachers have to work with both extremes, as well as kids in various family situations that affect social development. There are also brain development factors that apply and don't necessarily level out until 7/8 years old. My beef up the thread was that some hyper-vigilant parents expect teachers to achieve the possible, but improbably, because they have decided that little Johnny is a genius. The same people will pay $10,000 for soccer leagues, etc.
jacobolus 6y ago
If you want kids to read, they have to start with lots of listening. The cornerstone of language ability is hearing lots and lots of varied speech, and the easiest way to get it is by hearing books read aloud. Reading in English (i.e. decoding written symbols into pronounced words) is not that hard a skill for typical kids to learn at age 5 if they have done a few years of listening to books read aloud every day, but it does require direct focus for like 15 minutes per day for 6–12 months, and one-on-one help from an adult makes that a lot easier.

tablespoon 6y ago

> I went to public school in Canada, and my wife did the same in the US. Neither of us had a kindergarten experience with desks and assignments - it was much like what you describe your experience as. > Perhaps your fancy kindergarten wasn’t as different from public school as you thought? I went to US public school for kindergarten and first grade, then a Montessori school for grades 2-5. I don't recall desks in kindergarten, but they were definitely out in full force for first grade. The Montessori school didn't have desks for every student, and it sounds similar in some of the other ways: no assignments, more hands-on learning, more play (think we got something like an hour of recess), etc. There's also likely regional variation. I have a friend who moved to SV, but moved to Redwood City because he thought the public schools closer to San Jose were too cut throat and competitive, and some parents sent their kids to cram schools. I wouldn't be surprised of that kind of attitude rubbed off on the kindergartens and made their curriculums too aggressively academic.