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I’m not a huge Musk fan, but seems like he’s right here? Especially now that we know how that stock has performed over the last few years. Imo the value of the

I’m not a huge Musk fan, but seems like he’s right here? Especially now that we know how that stock has performed over the last few years. Imo the value of the UAW should be to provide a lower bound for worker pay/treatment. Tesla seems above that (at least for factory workers).

Avshalom 6y ago
The article is misleading because "canceled over a tweet" is how you make a news story sexy in 2021, the NLRB didn't make this decision based on that single tweet. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26693850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26693850
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
oivey 6y ago
> Especially now that we know how that stock has performed over the last few years. So because Tesla’s stock price is high he doesn’t have to follow labor laws?
- sesuximo 6y ago
  I think because workers have recently made a lot of money from stock, it doesn’t make sense to renegotiate their contracts right now.
CryptoPunk 6y ago
A lower bound for worker pay/treatment is like a law prohibiting supermarkets from selling gruel mix, on account of the sentiment that poor people should not be eating gruel. It doesn't lead to the poor suddenly being able to afford fish fillet and steak. It leads to the poor going hungry. There is absolutely no public welfare benefit in creating statutory minimums on wages, benefits and working conditions. The arguments that rationalize the granting of extra-contractual rights to labor unions, and labor regulations in general, are basically just economic fallacies that rent-seeking unions popularized.
- cratermoon 6y ago
  Or, as Anatole France wrote, "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal loaves of bread"
  - CryptoPunk 6y ago
    The law doesn't do the first or second, only the third. Prohibition of some behavior associated with some state of being doesn't eliminate that state of being. It only makes it manifest in some other functionally equivalent way.
  - epivosism 6y ago
    "Unfortunately, the real minimum wage is always zero, regardless of the laws, and that is the wage that many workers receive in the wake of the creation or escalation of a government-mandated minimum wage, because they lose their jobs or fail to find jobs when they enter the labor force." -Thomas Sowell
    - tablespoon 6y ago
      https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/01/economism-and-the-minimum-wage/513155/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/01/economi... > The argument against increasing the minimum wage often relies on what I call “economism”—the misleading application of basic lessons from Economics 101 to real-world problems, creating the illusion of consensus and reducing a complex topic to a simple, open-and-shut case.... > [discussion of economic research that shows no consensus if increasing minimum wage empirically leads to greater unemployment] > Even if a higher minimum wage does cause some people to lose their jobs, that cost has to be balanced against the benefit of greater earnings for other low-income workers. A study by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated that a $10.10 minimum would reduce employment by 500,000 jobs but would increase incomes for most poor families, moving 900,000 people above the poverty line. Similarly, a recent paper by the economist Arindrajit Dube finds that a 10 percent raise in the minimum wage should reduce the number of families living in poverty by around 2 percent to 3 percent. The economists polled in the 2013 Chicago Booth study thought that increasing the minimum wage would be a good idea because its potential impact on employment would be outweighed by the benefits to people who were still able to find jobs. Raising the minimum wage would also reduce inequality by narrowing the pay gap between low-income and higher-income workers. > In short, whether the minimum wage should be increased (or eliminated) is a complicated question. The economic research is difficult to parse, and arguments often turn on sophisticated econometric details. Any change in the minimum wage would have different effects on different groups of people, and should also be compared with other policies that could help the working poor—such as the negative income tax (a cash grant to low-income households, similar to today’s Earned Income Tax Credit) favored by Milton Friedman, or the guaranteed minimum income that Friedrich Hayek assumed would exist.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Avshalom 6y ago

The article is misleading because "canceled over a tweet" is how you make a news story sexy in 2021, the NLRB didn't make this decision based on that single tweet. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26693850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26693850

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

oivey 6y ago

> Especially now that we know how that stock has performed over the last few years. So because Tesla’s stock price is high he doesn’t have to follow labor laws?

sesuximo 6y ago
I think because workers have recently made a lot of money from stock, it doesn’t make sense to renegotiate their contracts right now.

CryptoPunk 6y ago

A lower bound for worker pay/treatment is like a law prohibiting supermarkets from selling gruel mix, on account of the sentiment that poor people should not be eating gruel. It doesn't lead to the poor suddenly being able to afford fish fillet and steak. It leads to the poor going hungry. There is absolutely no public welfare benefit in creating statutory minimums on wages, benefits and working conditions. The arguments that rationalize the granting of extra-contractual rights to labor unions, and labor regulations in general, are basically just economic fallacies that rent-seeking unions popularized.

cratermoon 6y ago
Or, as Anatole France wrote, "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal loaves of bread"
- CryptoPunk 6y ago
  The law doesn't do the first or second, only the third. Prohibition of some behavior associated with some state of being doesn't eliminate that state of being. It only makes it manifest in some other functionally equivalent way.
- epivosism 6y ago
  "Unfortunately, the real minimum wage is always zero, regardless of the laws, and that is the wage that many workers receive in the wake of the creation or escalation of a government-mandated minimum wage, because they lose their jobs or fail to find jobs when they enter the labor force." -Thomas Sowell
  - tablespoon 6y ago
    https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/01/economism-and-the-minimum-wage/513155/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/01/economi... > The argument against increasing the minimum wage often relies on what I call “economism”—the misleading application of basic lessons from Economics 101 to real-world problems, creating the illusion of consensus and reducing a complex topic to a simple, open-and-shut case.... > [discussion of economic research that shows no consensus if increasing minimum wage empirically leads to greater unemployment] > Even if a higher minimum wage does cause some people to lose their jobs, that cost has to be balanced against the benefit of greater earnings for other low-income workers. A study by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated that a $10.10 minimum would reduce employment by 500,000 jobs but would increase incomes for most poor families, moving 900,000 people above the poverty line. Similarly, a recent paper by the economist Arindrajit Dube finds that a 10 percent raise in the minimum wage should reduce the number of families living in poverty by around 2 percent to 3 percent. The economists polled in the 2013 Chicago Booth study thought that increasing the minimum wage would be a good idea because its potential impact on employment would be outweighed by the benefits to people who were still able to find jobs. Raising the minimum wage would also reduce inequality by narrowing the pay gap between low-income and higher-income workers. > In short, whether the minimum wage should be increased (or eliminated) is a complicated question. The economic research is difficult to parse, and arguments often turn on sophisticated econometric details. Any change in the minimum wage would have different effects on different groups of people, and should also be compared with other policies that could help the working poor—such as the negative income tax (a cash grant to low-income households, similar to today’s Earned Income Tax Credit) favored by Milton Friedman, or the guaranteed minimum income that Friedrich Hayek assumed would exist.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]