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How many developers don't know how to touch type? Is this really a problem? EDIT: Even if you pass the hiring process I think you would get fired pretty immedia

How many developers don't know how to touch type? Is this really a problem? EDIT: Even if you pass the hiring process I think you would get fired pretty immediately.

knowtheory 15y ago
I feel similarly, but i have also heard that there is some concern with the current generation of digital natives growing up with the presumption that they know how to touch type, w/o necessarily having gone through classes or the like. I'd be interested to see if someone's done a survey on this.
wccrawford 15y ago
Many non-touch-typing programmers type fast enough that it doesn't matter. They don't get fired because in the end, it doesn't matter.
- skilldrick 15y ago
  I don't think not being able to touch-type will get you fired (if you can type fast anyway), but I don't agree that "it doesn't matter".
- InclinedPlane 15y ago
  I'm not convinced that it doesn't matter, but it may not be a big enough problem to get fired over. As far as traits that affect overall developer productivity typing is almost certainly not at the top of the list, and maybe not even in the top 5. However, it is important. If you introduce a degree of inefficiency and friction into communication, coding, documentation, etc. that'll obviously impact overall developer effectiveness. Consider this thought experiment. Instead of a regular keyboard a developer uses a thumb-based keyboard for everything, perhaps a wired 360 controller with a chatpad attachment. Are they going to get fired over it? Maybe not. Are they going to be less productive than if they were properly touch typing with a regular keyboard? Probably so.
  - wccrawford 15y ago
    You seem to assume that they type slower than all touch-typists, but I've met some touch-typists (with years of experience) that type slower than some non-touch-typists. So again, it does not matter. Technique does not matter. Only results matter.
davidamcclain 15y ago
As a colleague said "Wow, you can type really fast... for someone who only uses two fingers". Now he's exaggerating a bit, but I am a slow typer that predominately uses index, middle and thumb. Now, I get stuff done, I'm a pretty smart coder but typing speed, to me, feels like a huge bottleneck. By far the most important area I need to improve on. Unlearning bad habits is hard, any advice?
- skilldrick 15y ago
  > any advice? GNU Typist, and real discipline. Force yourself to do it their way.
- bodski 15y ago
  Switch layout to Dvorak maybe? It will give you a fresh start and allow you to type fast with less finger travel and less pain, not necessarily any faster though. Also will infuriate your co-workers and family members when they come to borrow your machine!
  - jerf 15y ago
    If you want to forcibly learn to touch-type, learning Dvorak is a very potent solution. The reason why you don't touch-type on QWERTY is generally that, frankly, there isn't a very compelling reason to. QWERTY doesn't reward you for it. You keep your fingers on the home row, and you get, what, the J? The K? F? The semi-colon? WTF? Why would you touch type? I'm not actually sure failing to touch type with QWERTY is actually a problem. It may actually be the most rational reaction. Or you can switch to a sensible keyboard layout, of which Dvorak is the easiest to get support for (though not the only, and, abstractly, not necessarily the best, but mostly good enough). Now you get AOEU under your left hand and HTNS under your right, and guess what, you don't have to try to keep your fingers on the home row, because they're just there anyhow. It's difficult to imagine what a "non-touch-typing Dvorak user" would even be, at least once you've really internalized it. Given how painful learning to QWERTY touch type can be, it's probably easier just to switch to Dvorak, learn the layout, then just naturally learn touch typing in the next couple of months without "trying". The total effort might be lower, even if the switch isn't free. (This is all assuming we just take as a given that touch typing is desirable. I'm not sure about that, but I also think we lack the data to be sure either way, especially when it comes to long term effects.)
DavidMcLaughlin 15y ago
I don't know how to touch type, I have a "two fingers and thumb" approach and never have to look at the keyboard (I was given a German keyboard at work and I never noticed until a German sat down and tried to use it). I was curious what "fast" is so I just took this test: http://speedtest.10-fast-fingers.com/ http://speedtest.10-fast-fingers.com/ You reached 395 points, so you achieved position 14664 of 1148922 on the ranking list You type 588 characters per minute You have 98 correct words and you have 6 wrong words Which is close to 99th percentile, although that website may have a bias towards slow typists. What speed would a touch typist expect?
- bane 15y ago
  I hadn't seen this test before so I took it on a lark. 405 points, 11978th, 530 characters per minute, 101 correct words 2 wrong. 101 wpm. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that most professional developer types can probably do within some small percentage of these scores. From wikipedia:"An average professional typist reaches 50 to 70wpm, while some positions can require 80 to 95 (usually the minimum required for dispatch positions and other typing jobs), and some advanced typists work at speeds above 120"
- mike_esspe 15y ago
  Can you type in the dark room? Incredible speed for two fingers :)
  - georgemcbay 15y ago
    I am not the person you were asking this of -- but I type in a similar fashion (I only use my two index fingers and my right thumb [which is dedicated to hitting the space bar]) and I have no problems typing fast in the dark. I don't look at the keys, it is all just based on muscle memory of where the keys are. Where I do hit a bit of a snag is when trying to type on a keyboard that is sized significantly different to that of the ones I normally use, but even in that case I adjust to the new spacing within a matter of minutes.

How many developers don't know how to touch type? Is this really a problem? EDIT: Even if you pass the hiring process I think you would get fired pretty immediately.

knowtheory 15y ago

I feel similarly, but i have also heard that there is some concern with the current generation of digital natives growing up with the presumption that they know how to touch type, w/o necessarily having gone through classes or the like. I'd be interested to see if someone's done a survey on this.

wccrawford 15y ago

Many non-touch-typing programmers type fast enough that it doesn't matter. They don't get fired because in the end, it doesn't matter.

skilldrick 15y ago
I don't think not being able to touch-type will get you fired (if you can type fast anyway), but I don't agree that "it doesn't matter".
InclinedPlane 15y ago
I'm not convinced that it doesn't matter, but it may not be a big enough problem to get fired over. As far as traits that affect overall developer productivity typing is almost certainly not at the top of the list, and maybe not even in the top 5. However, it is important. If you introduce a degree of inefficiency and friction into communication, coding, documentation, etc. that'll obviously impact overall developer effectiveness. Consider this thought experiment. Instead of a regular keyboard a developer uses a thumb-based keyboard for everything, perhaps a wired 360 controller with a chatpad attachment. Are they going to get fired over it? Maybe not. Are they going to be less productive than if they were properly touch typing with a regular keyboard? Probably so.
- wccrawford 15y ago
  You seem to assume that they type slower than all touch-typists, but I've met some touch-typists (with years of experience) that type slower than some non-touch-typists. So again, it does not matter. Technique does not matter. Only results matter.

davidamcclain 15y ago

As a colleague said "Wow, you can type really fast... for someone who only uses two fingers". Now he's exaggerating a bit, but I am a slow typer that predominately uses index, middle and thumb. Now, I get stuff done, I'm a pretty smart coder but typing speed, to me, feels like a huge bottleneck. By far the most important area I need to improve on. Unlearning bad habits is hard, any advice?

skilldrick 15y ago
> any advice? GNU Typist, and real discipline. Force yourself to do it their way.
bodski 15y ago
Switch layout to Dvorak maybe? It will give you a fresh start and allow you to type fast with less finger travel and less pain, not necessarily any faster though. Also will infuriate your co-workers and family members when they come to borrow your machine!
- jerf 15y ago
  If you want to forcibly learn to touch-type, learning Dvorak is a very potent solution. The reason why you don't touch-type on QWERTY is generally that, frankly, there isn't a very compelling reason to. QWERTY doesn't reward you for it. You keep your fingers on the home row, and you get, what, the J? The K? F? The semi-colon? WTF? Why would you touch type? I'm not actually sure failing to touch type with QWERTY is actually a problem. It may actually be the most rational reaction. Or you can switch to a sensible keyboard layout, of which Dvorak is the easiest to get support for (though not the only, and, abstractly, not necessarily the best, but mostly good enough). Now you get AOEU under your left hand and HTNS under your right, and guess what, you don't have to try to keep your fingers on the home row, because they're just there anyhow. It's difficult to imagine what a "non-touch-typing Dvorak user" would even be, at least once you've really internalized it. Given how painful learning to QWERTY touch type can be, it's probably easier just to switch to Dvorak, learn the layout, then just naturally learn touch typing in the next couple of months without "trying". The total effort might be lower, even if the switch isn't free. (This is all assuming we just take as a given that touch typing is desirable. I'm not sure about that, but I also think we lack the data to be sure either way, especially when it comes to long term effects.)

DavidMcLaughlin 15y ago

I don't know how to touch type, I have a "two fingers and thumb" approach and never have to look at the keyboard (I was given a German keyboard at work and I never noticed until a German sat down and tried to use it). I was curious what "fast" is so I just took this test: http://speedtest.10-fast-fingers.com/ http://speedtest.10-fast-fingers.com/ You reached 395 points, so you achieved position 14664 of 1148922 on the ranking list You type 588 characters per minute You have 98 correct words and you have 6 wrong words Which is close to 99th percentile, although that website may have a bias towards slow typists. What speed would a touch typist expect?

bane 15y ago
I hadn't seen this test before so I took it on a lark. 405 points, 11978th, 530 characters per minute, 101 correct words 2 wrong. 101 wpm. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that most professional developer types can probably do within some small percentage of these scores. From wikipedia:"An average professional typist reaches 50 to 70wpm, while some positions can require 80 to 95 (usually the minimum required for dispatch positions and other typing jobs), and some advanced typists work at speeds above 120"
mike_esspe 15y ago
Can you type in the dark room? Incredible speed for two fingers :)
- georgemcbay 15y ago
  I am not the person you were asking this of -- but I type in a similar fashion (I only use my two index fingers and my right thumb [which is dedicated to hitting the space bar]) and I have no problems typing fast in the dark. I don't look at the keys, it is all just based on muscle memory of where the keys are. Where I do hit a bit of a snag is when trying to type on a keyboard that is sized significantly different to that of the ones I normally use, but even in that case I adjust to the new spacing within a matter of minutes.