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I don't understand this well enough to fully know how this vaccine works. But HIV integrates into the human genome so you can never really get rid of it. So I

I don't understand this well enough to fully know how this vaccine works. But HIV integrates into the human genome so you can never really get rid of it. So I'm not sure exactly how this treatment would play out.

olliej 6y ago
What the hell are you talking about? It does not “integrate with the human genome”.
- nlitened 6y ago
  I don't know much about it, but, from my understanding, HIV is a "retrovirus", which means that it integrates into host cell's DNA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrovirus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrovirus I'd really appreciate some input from someone who knows more on this topic.
  - tjohns 6y ago
    Yes, that's correct. After entering a CD4+ cell, HIV uses reverse transcriptase to copy it's RNA into DNA, enters the cell's nucleus, then uses integrase to splice that DNA into the host cell's genome. From that point on the host cell is permanently infected. This is one of the few exceptions to the "central dogma of molecular biology", which otherwise says information can't flow back into the nucleus. The reverse transcription process is notoriously error prone, which is the reason why HIV is able to mutate so easily and develop resistance to antiviral drugs. Most cells will go on to immediately begin building new HIV copies; these cells will quickly die out. A small number will go back to a resting state, only to reactivate months or years later. This "latent reservoir" of dormant cells means that even if you eradicate all the viremia from a patient, the infection will come back. This is why we can't cure HIV. There is a very small window after infection before the virus has had a chance to establish a latent resevior where it can be successfully eradicated. This is how prophylactic drugs as part of PEP can work - if given quickly enough. There's a really good animation someone posted here a few days ago that illustrates the mechanics: https://vimeo.com/260291607 https://vimeo.com/260291607
  - david38 6y ago
    Ah... no. It’s special because it attacks white blood cells and white blood cells are what are supposed to attack it.
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    That HIV can and does do that is consistent with what I've read. Some percentage of cells HIV can lay dormant for an indefinint amount of time.
- retrac 6y ago
  HIV does not generally infect the germ cells that produce sperm or eggs, so it is not heritable, which is maybe the sense you interpreted OP's comment. Still, HIV is a provirus. Retroviruses write themselves into the genome of the host cell. Cells which are infected and survive to reproduce carry the HIV provirus. As will their descendants, and so on. They will produce HIV when mature even without any HIV particles in the cell. This is integration with the host genome. This is why HIV cannot be cured with antivirals which fully inhibit its replication. It's also why complete destruction of the immune system (in the process destroying all the cells which are the specific hosts) while flooding the body with high dose antivirals, and then grafting innately immune T-cells, is an effective, if rather drastic, cure.
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  What the hell are you talking about? Does every Dunning Kruger moron on the planet just talk with authority about science now because they posted the hashtag #believeInScience during Coronavirus? The numb skulls in this thread need to gooogle retrovirus, integrase, and reverse transcriptase before even typing or better yet even thinking they know anything about biology just because they know how to write a JavaScript component.
  - dang 6y ago
    Breaking the site guidelines like this will get you banned here regardless of how much you know or how right you are. The destruction it causes to the community is not worth it. We've had to warn you more than once about this kind of thing before. Not cool. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - nickthemagicman 6y ago
      Not cool of the person I was responding too! The comment I was responding to was as rude as it gets. They deserve everything that I said. Had a legit question and they attacked me! What the heck. Also I never insulted them directly. That was a vague generic comment targeting general numbskulls. If the person I was talking to thinks they are numb skull then that does apply.
      - dang 6y ago
        I replied to that user too, but even if I hadn't, pointing the finger at someone else is not a good way to respond to your own breaking of the rules, and certainly doesn't justify anything. Everyone here needs to follow the rules regardless of what anyone else does. Otherwise we just get a downward spiral.
        nickthemagicman 6y ago
        When someone's rude my instinct is to be rude back to take care of the problem. Need to step back, take some breaths, and say 'Serenity Now' until Im relaxed.
- programmarchy 6y ago
  The mechanism is called reverse transcription. It’s a well known exception to the “central dogma of molecular biology”.
  - nickthemagicman 6y ago
    Thank you. And it uses the enzyme integrase to integrate into the host cells genome and reverse transcriptase to create DNA from RNA. Anyone who has looked into any science beyond what the media talks about knows this about HIV. What's even more interesting is that there's latent reservoirs in a person's body that we don't know where they are so that even after we get someone's viral count undetectable with meds, if they stop the medicine hov can come back
- dang 6y ago
  We've had to warn you before about breaking the site guidelines. Attacking another user like that will get you banned here. If another comment contains incorrect information, the thing to do is share correct information, so we all can learn. Breaking the site guidelines and lashing out with putdowns just makes the thread even worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
zizee 6y ago
Vaccines trigger an immune response, preparing the body to fight of the infection. This allows the body to "beat" the infection before it takes hold. Afaik vaccines are not useful after the fact. I.e. this HIV vaccine won't be given to people already infected.
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  Right but for a virus that integrates into the genome once it takes hold it's game over. And even vaccine mediated immune responses are via memory cells and take time to ramp up to generate the antibodies to attack the virus. So I guess my question is: Is the window of opportunity while ramping up the immune system for a vaccine big enough for HIV to take root in a body. Does your knowledge stop at "Vaccine stop infection?" Isnt that just common knowledge?
  - XzAeRosho 6y ago
    >Right but for a virus that integrates into the genome once it takes hold it's game over. The same could be said about any other successful vaccine, like Polio and Measles vaccines. Not that those diseases behave like HIV, but the way we handle vaccination against them. >And even vaccine mediated immune responses are via memory cells and take time to ramp up to generate the antibodies to attack the virus. That's why there are vaccination campaigns, to immunize target groups before they contract the aforementioned sickness. >Is the window of opportunity while ramping up the immune system for a vaccine I mean unresponse big enough for HIV to take root in a body. A vaccine is always a good opportunity to prevent adverse effects, even "if takes time" to ramp up your immune system.
  - jacoblambda 6y ago
    Like previously stated, HIV hides inside of cells for an indeterminate amount of time. As you mentioned immune memory can take a little bit of time to kick in. Once it kicks in however, it is extraordinarily effective at hunting down viruses and actively (non-dormant) infected cells. With a small enough viral load however, the immune system can fend off HIV well enough. During an initial infection either the immune system will fight off the virus if the load is small enough and it gets lucky or the virus takes hold of some cells and starts reproducing. In this latter case, the immune memory allows the immune system to effectively fight off the virus before it can properly take hold. Of course some of the virus may lay dormant in a few cells but since it never gets a chance to take hold of the body the quantity of dormant infected cells is relatively low. Now due to the low quantity of dormant infected cells, it is extremely unlikely that there will be enough "activated" cells at any given time that the immune system is not able to handle the threat before it escalates. Over time you can expect the dormant HIV to slowly be exterminated or at very least prevented from growing in count. --- Now this isn't anything terribly new. The real breakthrough with this vaccine over other attempts in the past is that it results in the production of a specific type of antibody that can act on all known HIV strains with essentially the same efficacy (where as prior vaccines couldn't result in the production of antibodies that worked reliably on even small portions of the thousands of different HIV strains).
sp332 6y ago
You can keep it from spreading quickly within a person's body, and reduce the chances of transmission, if you can reduce the amount of viral particles that exist outside of host cells.
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  Seems like even vaccine mediated immune response takes time to ramp up and generate antibodies. Especially from memory cells. I don't know if that window of opportunity is sufficient for HIV to integrate into the host genome.
  - sp332 6y ago
    I meant vaccinating the person who already has the infection. Their own immune system will remove the virus particles before they can travel.
  - _Microft 6y ago
    As I understand, this integration might happen but would be meaningless because viruses ejected from infected cells will subsequently be intercepted.
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      Depending on the immune response, infected cells can also be destroyed.

olliej 6y ago

What the hell are you talking about? It does not “integrate with the human genome”.

nlitened 6y ago
I don't know much about it, but, from my understanding, HIV is a "retrovirus", which means that it integrates into host cell's DNA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrovirus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrovirus I'd really appreciate some input from someone who knows more on this topic.
- tjohns 6y ago
  Yes, that's correct. After entering a CD4+ cell, HIV uses reverse transcriptase to copy it's RNA into DNA, enters the cell's nucleus, then uses integrase to splice that DNA into the host cell's genome. From that point on the host cell is permanently infected. This is one of the few exceptions to the "central dogma of molecular biology", which otherwise says information can't flow back into the nucleus. The reverse transcription process is notoriously error prone, which is the reason why HIV is able to mutate so easily and develop resistance to antiviral drugs. Most cells will go on to immediately begin building new HIV copies; these cells will quickly die out. A small number will go back to a resting state, only to reactivate months or years later. This "latent reservoir" of dormant cells means that even if you eradicate all the viremia from a patient, the infection will come back. This is why we can't cure HIV. There is a very small window after infection before the virus has had a chance to establish a latent resevior where it can be successfully eradicated. This is how prophylactic drugs as part of PEP can work - if given quickly enough. There's a really good animation someone posted here a few days ago that illustrates the mechanics: https://vimeo.com/260291607 https://vimeo.com/260291607
- david38 6y ago
  Ah... no. It’s special because it attacks white blood cells and white blood cells are what are supposed to attack it.
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  That HIV can and does do that is consistent with what I've read. Some percentage of cells HIV can lay dormant for an indefinint amount of time.
retrac 6y ago
HIV does not generally infect the germ cells that produce sperm or eggs, so it is not heritable, which is maybe the sense you interpreted OP's comment. Still, HIV is a provirus. Retroviruses write themselves into the genome of the host cell. Cells which are infected and survive to reproduce carry the HIV provirus. As will their descendants, and so on. They will produce HIV when mature even without any HIV particles in the cell. This is integration with the host genome. This is why HIV cannot be cured with antivirals which fully inhibit its replication. It's also why complete destruction of the immune system (in the process destroying all the cells which are the specific hosts) while flooding the body with high dose antivirals, and then grafting innately immune T-cells, is an effective, if rather drastic, cure.
nickthemagicman 6y ago
What the hell are you talking about? Does every Dunning Kruger moron on the planet just talk with authority about science now because they posted the hashtag #believeInScience during Coronavirus? The numb skulls in this thread need to gooogle retrovirus, integrase, and reverse transcriptase before even typing or better yet even thinking they know anything about biology just because they know how to write a JavaScript component.
- dang 6y ago
  Breaking the site guidelines like this will get you banned here regardless of how much you know or how right you are. The destruction it causes to the community is not worth it. We've had to warn you more than once about this kind of thing before. Not cool. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - nickthemagicman 6y ago
    Not cool of the person I was responding too! The comment I was responding to was as rude as it gets. They deserve everything that I said. Had a legit question and they attacked me! What the heck. Also I never insulted them directly. That was a vague generic comment targeting general numbskulls. If the person I was talking to thinks they are numb skull then that does apply.
    - dang 6y ago
      I replied to that user too, but even if I hadn't, pointing the finger at someone else is not a good way to respond to your own breaking of the rules, and certainly doesn't justify anything. Everyone here needs to follow the rules regardless of what anyone else does. Otherwise we just get a downward spiral.
      - nickthemagicman 6y ago
        When someone's rude my instinct is to be rude back to take care of the problem. Need to step back, take some breaths, and say 'Serenity Now' until Im relaxed.
programmarchy 6y ago
The mechanism is called reverse transcription. It’s a well known exception to the “central dogma of molecular biology”.
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  Thank you. And it uses the enzyme integrase to integrate into the host cells genome and reverse transcriptase to create DNA from RNA. Anyone who has looked into any science beyond what the media talks about knows this about HIV. What's even more interesting is that there's latent reservoirs in a person's body that we don't know where they are so that even after we get someone's viral count undetectable with meds, if they stop the medicine hov can come back
dang 6y ago
We've had to warn you before about breaking the site guidelines. Attacking another user like that will get you banned here. If another comment contains incorrect information, the thing to do is share correct information, so we all can learn. Breaking the site guidelines and lashing out with putdowns just makes the thread even worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

zizee 6y ago

Vaccines trigger an immune response, preparing the body to fight of the infection. This allows the body to "beat" the infection before it takes hold. Afaik vaccines are not useful after the fact. I.e. this HIV vaccine won't be given to people already infected.

nickthemagicman 6y ago
Right but for a virus that integrates into the genome once it takes hold it's game over. And even vaccine mediated immune responses are via memory cells and take time to ramp up to generate the antibodies to attack the virus. So I guess my question is: Is the window of opportunity while ramping up the immune system for a vaccine big enough for HIV to take root in a body. Does your knowledge stop at "Vaccine stop infection?" Isnt that just common knowledge?
- XzAeRosho 6y ago
  >Right but for a virus that integrates into the genome once it takes hold it's game over. The same could be said about any other successful vaccine, like Polio and Measles vaccines. Not that those diseases behave like HIV, but the way we handle vaccination against them. >And even vaccine mediated immune responses are via memory cells and take time to ramp up to generate the antibodies to attack the virus. That's why there are vaccination campaigns, to immunize target groups before they contract the aforementioned sickness. >Is the window of opportunity while ramping up the immune system for a vaccine I mean unresponse big enough for HIV to take root in a body. A vaccine is always a good opportunity to prevent adverse effects, even "if takes time" to ramp up your immune system.
- jacoblambda 6y ago
  Like previously stated, HIV hides inside of cells for an indeterminate amount of time. As you mentioned immune memory can take a little bit of time to kick in. Once it kicks in however, it is extraordinarily effective at hunting down viruses and actively (non-dormant) infected cells. With a small enough viral load however, the immune system can fend off HIV well enough. During an initial infection either the immune system will fight off the virus if the load is small enough and it gets lucky or the virus takes hold of some cells and starts reproducing. In this latter case, the immune memory allows the immune system to effectively fight off the virus before it can properly take hold. Of course some of the virus may lay dormant in a few cells but since it never gets a chance to take hold of the body the quantity of dormant infected cells is relatively low. Now due to the low quantity of dormant infected cells, it is extremely unlikely that there will be enough "activated" cells at any given time that the immune system is not able to handle the threat before it escalates. Over time you can expect the dormant HIV to slowly be exterminated or at very least prevented from growing in count. --- Now this isn't anything terribly new. The real breakthrough with this vaccine over other attempts in the past is that it results in the production of a specific type of antibody that can act on all known HIV strains with essentially the same efficacy (where as prior vaccines couldn't result in the production of antibodies that worked reliably on even small portions of the thousands of different HIV strains).

sp332 6y ago

You can keep it from spreading quickly within a person's body, and reduce the chances of transmission, if you can reduce the amount of viral particles that exist outside of host cells.

nickthemagicman 6y ago
Seems like even vaccine mediated immune response takes time to ramp up and generate antibodies. Especially from memory cells. I don't know if that window of opportunity is sufficient for HIV to integrate into the host genome.
- sp332 6y ago
  I meant vaccinating the person who already has the infection. Their own immune system will remove the virus particles before they can travel.
- _Microft 6y ago
  As I understand, this integration might happen but would be meaningless because viruses ejected from infected cells will subsequently be intercepted.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    Depending on the immune response, infected cells can also be destroyed.