5 ms·

You should learn to type (properly)

19 points by skilldrick 15y ago

zitterbewegung 15y ago
How many developers don't know how to touch type? Is this really a problem? EDIT: Even if you pass the hiring process I think you would get fired pretty immediately.
- knowtheory 15y ago
  I feel similarly, but i have also heard that there is some concern with the current generation of digital natives growing up with the presumption that they know how to touch type, w/o necessarily having gone through classes or the like. I'd be interested to see if someone's done a survey on this.
- wccrawford 15y ago
  Many non-touch-typing programmers type fast enough that it doesn't matter. They don't get fired because in the end, it doesn't matter.
  - skilldrick 15y ago
    I don't think not being able to touch-type will get you fired (if you can type fast anyway), but I don't agree that "it doesn't matter".
  - InclinedPlane 15y ago
    I'm not convinced that it doesn't matter, but it may not be a big enough problem to get fired over. As far as traits that affect overall developer productivity typing is almost certainly not at the top of the list, and maybe not even in the top 5. However, it is important. If you introduce a degree of inefficiency and friction into communication, coding, documentation, etc. that'll obviously impact overall developer effectiveness. Consider this thought experiment. Instead of a regular keyboard a developer uses a thumb-based keyboard for everything, perhaps a wired 360 controller with a chatpad attachment. Are they going to get fired over it? Maybe not. Are they going to be less productive than if they were properly touch typing with a regular keyboard? Probably so.
    - wccrawford 15y ago
      You seem to assume that they type slower than all touch-typists, but I've met some touch-typists (with years of experience) that type slower than some non-touch-typists. So again, it does not matter. Technique does not matter. Only results matter.
- davidamcclain 15y ago
  As a colleague said "Wow, you can type really fast... for someone who only uses two fingers". Now he's exaggerating a bit, but I am a slow typer that predominately uses index, middle and thumb. Now, I get stuff done, I'm a pretty smart coder but typing speed, to me, feels like a huge bottleneck. By far the most important area I need to improve on. Unlearning bad habits is hard, any advice?
  - skilldrick 15y ago
    > any advice? GNU Typist, and real discipline. Force yourself to do it their way.
  - bodski 15y ago
    Switch layout to Dvorak maybe? It will give you a fresh start and allow you to type fast with less finger travel and less pain, not necessarily any faster though. Also will infuriate your co-workers and family members when they come to borrow your machine!
    - jerf 15y ago
      If you want to forcibly learn to touch-type, learning Dvorak is a very potent solution. The reason why you don't touch-type on QWERTY is generally that, frankly, there isn't a very compelling reason to. QWERTY doesn't reward you for it. You keep your fingers on the home row, and you get, what, the J? The K? F? The semi-colon? WTF? Why would you touch type? I'm not actually sure failing to touch type with QWERTY is actually a problem. It may actually be the most rational reaction. Or you can switch to a sensible keyboard layout, of which Dvorak is the easiest to get support for (though not the only, and, abstractly, not necessarily the best, but mostly good enough). Now you get AOEU under your left hand and HTNS under your right, and guess what, you don't have to try to keep your fingers on the home row, because they're just there anyhow. It's difficult to imagine what a "non-touch-typing Dvorak user" would even be, at least once you've really internalized it. Given how painful learning to QWERTY touch type can be, it's probably easier just to switch to Dvorak, learn the layout, then just naturally learn touch typing in the next couple of months without "trying". The total effort might be lower, even if the switch isn't free. (This is all assuming we just take as a given that touch typing is desirable. I'm not sure about that, but I also think we lack the data to be sure either way, especially when it comes to long term effects.)
- DavidMcLaughlin 15y ago
  I don't know how to touch type, I have a "two fingers and thumb" approach and never have to look at the keyboard (I was given a German keyboard at work and I never noticed until a German sat down and tried to use it). I was curious what "fast" is so I just took this test: http://speedtest.10-fast-fingers.com/ http://speedtest.10-fast-fingers.com/ You reached 395 points, so you achieved position 14664 of 1148922 on the ranking list You type 588 characters per minute You have 98 correct words and you have 6 wrong words Which is close to 99th percentile, although that website may have a bias towards slow typists. What speed would a touch typist expect?
  - bane 15y ago
    I hadn't seen this test before so I took it on a lark. 405 points, 11978th, 530 characters per minute, 101 correct words 2 wrong. 101 wpm. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that most professional developer types can probably do within some small percentage of these scores. From wikipedia:"An average professional typist reaches 50 to 70wpm, while some positions can require 80 to 95 (usually the minimum required for dispatch positions and other typing jobs), and some advanced typists work at speeds above 120"
  - mike_esspe 15y ago
    Can you type in the dark room? Incredible speed for two fingers :)
    - georgemcbay 15y ago
      I am not the person you were asking this of -- but I type in a similar fashion (I only use my two index fingers and my right thumb [which is dedicated to hitting the space bar]) and I have no problems typing fast in the dark. I don't look at the keys, it is all just based on muscle memory of where the keys are. Where I do hit a bit of a snag is when trying to type on a keyboard that is sized significantly different to that of the ones I normally use, but even in that case I adjust to the new spacing within a matter of minutes.
skilldrick 15y ago
It's probably worth clarifying here that touch-typing is different to typing-without-looking-at-the-keyboard-(much). As knowtheory said, many presume that they're the former, when they're actually the latter.
bricestacey 15y ago
If you're on a mac you can install homebrew[1] and then do the following: brew install gnu-typist gtypist [1] http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/ http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/
- skilldrick 15y ago
  Thanks. I'm on Ubuntu and did sudo apt-get install gtypist
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- jarek-foksa 15y ago
  gnu-typist/gtypist package also contains special mode that can be started with "typefortune -n 99" command. It lets you type random Unix fortunes which are much more interesting than predefined lessons.
sfk 15y ago
What an arrogant posting (presumably by a web developer). Go write some mathematical software or anything serious at all and you'll find soon enough that typing is not even remotely the bottleneck.
- skilldrick 15y ago
  What an arrogant comment. If you'd read the post, you would have seen that I said it's often not the bottleneck, but there are times when you need to get stuff out of your head as quickly as possible. This "typing is not the bottleneck" is such a cliché - I nearly wrote about it in the article. It presupposes that programming is some kind of pipes-and-filters activity where we're thinking and then typing and then compiling. I don't know about you, but when I'm programming I work in different states. Sometimes it actually is about getting the code into the computer as fast as possible. Not all the time, but sometimes.
- pak 15y ago
  Pot calling the kettle black. What's with the increasing level of trollbait around here?
jarek-foksa 15y ago
I have recently created a simple touch typing trainer app for Chrome. It's heavily inspired by "typefortune" mode from gtypist: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/okboeogmnhjpgbeaokfogelclpblaemo https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/okboeogmnhjpgbeaok...
- fgm2r 15y ago
  I keep managing to navigate backwards to an empty tab without wanting to. I tried to write a Chrome extension for typing text on websites recently. But I never got it to select the correct text blocks, especially on sites with table layouts like HN.
Sargis 15y ago
Does using an azerty keyboard slow you down when using Vim? I'm assuming it was developed with qwerty keyboards in mind.
- bishboria 15y ago
  I use Vim religiously with the Colemak layout. hjkl are a bit messed up, but that's nothing.
tomjen3 15y ago
I originally learned to touchtype in elementary school. These days I just a Dvorak layout and don't worry too much about whether or not I use the proper form. I also don't concern myself with typing speed too much - if the speed at which your can write is your bottleneck, you are either much too clever to be in normal software development or you should stop using COBOL.
bane 15y ago
The home-row (touch) typists I know are without exception, all the non-tech people I know. I can't even think of a single tech person in my entire career that typed like this. When I was in High School we were required to take a typing class. I sat next to two of my nerd friends. When the teacher had little tests or races, we always came in 1st 2nd and 3rd in the class in terms of speed an accuracy, and between the 3 of us we probably used 8 fingers combined.
X-Istence 15y ago
I don't necessarily touch type since I almost never use my pinky other than to hold down the shift button. I don't really see the need to learn how to hold my hands on homerow to type better, I can type about 98 - 110 wpm without any issues without looking at my keyboard. The way I got better at typing and typing fast was to be on very busy IRC channels where getting a word in edgewise without missing any of the conversation required a lot of fast typing. I understand that most of this was meant for the people that are hunt and peck type. I don't think it is at all necessary for people that are able to type at a rapid rate using their own style to relearn how to type.
bishboria 15y ago
I'm a coder and I only learned to touch-type recently (within the last year) in QWERTY, it felt better but QWERTY itself just didn't feel right to me. I've since moved over to Colemak layout and I've never looked back (combined with a TypeMatrix keyboard).
misuse-permit 15y ago
Blehg, GNU Typist recommends putting two spaces after period. Someone needs a lesson from a typographer.
2muchcoffeeman 15y ago
I never learned to touch type. But if I use some amount of concentration I can type without looking at the keyboard. It's a bit like playing the guitar. I can see a mental picture of the keyboard and I can hit them with fairly high accuracy. I use most of my fingers but the pinkies are often regulated to hitting modifiers. Strangely I cannot picture many of the punctuation keys very well. Nor digits; top row or keypad. I remember having to hunt and peck. But kids now use the keyboard from a younger age, I think the need for formal typing skills is not going to be necessary.
- gnosis 15y ago
  "But if I use some amount of concentration I can type without looking at the keyboard." A competent touch typist should be able to type with his eyes closed, and without needing to concentrate at all. Typing becomes a reflex action, and you can concentrate on finding the right words, or on your code/problem itself.

19 points by skilldrick 15y ago

How many developers don't know how to touch type? Is this really a problem? EDIT: Even if you pass the hiring process I think you would get fired pretty immediately.

knowtheory 15y ago
I feel similarly, but i have also heard that there is some concern with the current generation of digital natives growing up with the presumption that they know how to touch type, w/o necessarily having gone through classes or the like. I'd be interested to see if someone's done a survey on this.
wccrawford 15y ago
Many non-touch-typing programmers type fast enough that it doesn't matter. They don't get fired because in the end, it doesn't matter.
- skilldrick 15y ago
  I don't think not being able to touch-type will get you fired (if you can type fast anyway), but I don't agree that "it doesn't matter".
- InclinedPlane 15y ago
  I'm not convinced that it doesn't matter, but it may not be a big enough problem to get fired over. As far as traits that affect overall developer productivity typing is almost certainly not at the top of the list, and maybe not even in the top 5. However, it is important. If you introduce a degree of inefficiency and friction into communication, coding, documentation, etc. that'll obviously impact overall developer effectiveness. Consider this thought experiment. Instead of a regular keyboard a developer uses a thumb-based keyboard for everything, perhaps a wired 360 controller with a chatpad attachment. Are they going to get fired over it? Maybe not. Are they going to be less productive than if they were properly touch typing with a regular keyboard? Probably so.
  - wccrawford 15y ago
    You seem to assume that they type slower than all touch-typists, but I've met some touch-typists (with years of experience) that type slower than some non-touch-typists. So again, it does not matter. Technique does not matter. Only results matter.
davidamcclain 15y ago
As a colleague said "Wow, you can type really fast... for someone who only uses two fingers". Now he's exaggerating a bit, but I am a slow typer that predominately uses index, middle and thumb. Now, I get stuff done, I'm a pretty smart coder but typing speed, to me, feels like a huge bottleneck. By far the most important area I need to improve on. Unlearning bad habits is hard, any advice?
- skilldrick 15y ago
  > any advice? GNU Typist, and real discipline. Force yourself to do it their way.
- bodski 15y ago
  Switch layout to Dvorak maybe? It will give you a fresh start and allow you to type fast with less finger travel and less pain, not necessarily any faster though. Also will infuriate your co-workers and family members when they come to borrow your machine!
  - jerf 15y ago
    If you want to forcibly learn to touch-type, learning Dvorak is a very potent solution. The reason why you don't touch-type on QWERTY is generally that, frankly, there isn't a very compelling reason to. QWERTY doesn't reward you for it. You keep your fingers on the home row, and you get, what, the J? The K? F? The semi-colon? WTF? Why would you touch type? I'm not actually sure failing to touch type with QWERTY is actually a problem. It may actually be the most rational reaction. Or you can switch to a sensible keyboard layout, of which Dvorak is the easiest to get support for (though not the only, and, abstractly, not necessarily the best, but mostly good enough). Now you get AOEU under your left hand and HTNS under your right, and guess what, you don't have to try to keep your fingers on the home row, because they're just there anyhow. It's difficult to imagine what a "non-touch-typing Dvorak user" would even be, at least once you've really internalized it. Given how painful learning to QWERTY touch type can be, it's probably easier just to switch to Dvorak, learn the layout, then just naturally learn touch typing in the next couple of months without "trying". The total effort might be lower, even if the switch isn't free. (This is all assuming we just take as a given that touch typing is desirable. I'm not sure about that, but I also think we lack the data to be sure either way, especially when it comes to long term effects.)
DavidMcLaughlin 15y ago
I don't know how to touch type, I have a "two fingers and thumb" approach and never have to look at the keyboard (I was given a German keyboard at work and I never noticed until a German sat down and tried to use it). I was curious what "fast" is so I just took this test: http://speedtest.10-fast-fingers.com/ http://speedtest.10-fast-fingers.com/ You reached 395 points, so you achieved position 14664 of 1148922 on the ranking list You type 588 characters per minute You have 98 correct words and you have 6 wrong words Which is close to 99th percentile, although that website may have a bias towards slow typists. What speed would a touch typist expect?
- bane 15y ago
  I hadn't seen this test before so I took it on a lark. 405 points, 11978th, 530 characters per minute, 101 correct words 2 wrong. 101 wpm. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that most professional developer types can probably do within some small percentage of these scores. From wikipedia:"An average professional typist reaches 50 to 70wpm, while some positions can require 80 to 95 (usually the minimum required for dispatch positions and other typing jobs), and some advanced typists work at speeds above 120"
- mike_esspe 15y ago
  Can you type in the dark room? Incredible speed for two fingers :)
  - georgemcbay 15y ago
    I am not the person you were asking this of -- but I type in a similar fashion (I only use my two index fingers and my right thumb [which is dedicated to hitting the space bar]) and I have no problems typing fast in the dark. I don't look at the keys, it is all just based on muscle memory of where the keys are. Where I do hit a bit of a snag is when trying to type on a keyboard that is sized significantly different to that of the ones I normally use, but even in that case I adjust to the new spacing within a matter of minutes.

skilldrick 15y ago

It's probably worth clarifying here that touch-typing is different to typing-without-looking-at-the-keyboard-(much). As knowtheory said, many presume that they're the former, when they're actually the latter.

bricestacey 15y ago

If you're on a mac you can install homebrew[1] and then do the following: brew install gnu-typist gtypist [1] http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/ http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/

skilldrick 15y ago
Thanks. I'm on Ubuntu and did sudo apt-get install gtypist
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
jarek-foksa 15y ago
gnu-typist/gtypist package also contains special mode that can be started with "typefortune -n 99" command. It lets you type random Unix fortunes which are much more interesting than predefined lessons.

sfk 15y ago

What an arrogant posting (presumably by a web developer). Go write some mathematical software or anything serious at all and you'll find soon enough that typing is not even remotely the bottleneck.

skilldrick 15y ago
What an arrogant comment. If you'd read the post, you would have seen that I said it's often not the bottleneck, but there are times when you need to get stuff out of your head as quickly as possible. This "typing is not the bottleneck" is such a cliché - I nearly wrote about it in the article. It presupposes that programming is some kind of pipes-and-filters activity where we're thinking and then typing and then compiling. I don't know about you, but when I'm programming I work in different states. Sometimes it actually is about getting the code into the computer as fast as possible. Not all the time, but sometimes.
pak 15y ago
Pot calling the kettle black. What's with the increasing level of trollbait around here?

jarek-foksa 15y ago

I have recently created a simple touch typing trainer app for Chrome. It's heavily inspired by "typefortune" mode from gtypist: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/okboeogmnhjpgbeaokfogelclpblaemo https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/okboeogmnhjpgbeaok...

fgm2r 15y ago
I keep managing to navigate backwards to an empty tab without wanting to. I tried to write a Chrome extension for typing text on websites recently. But I never got it to select the correct text blocks, especially on sites with table layouts like HN.

Sargis 15y ago

Does using an azerty keyboard slow you down when using Vim? I'm assuming it was developed with qwerty keyboards in mind.

bishboria 15y ago
I use Vim religiously with the Colemak layout. hjkl are a bit messed up, but that's nothing.

tomjen3 15y ago

I originally learned to touchtype in elementary school. These days I just a Dvorak layout and don't worry too much about whether or not I use the proper form. I also don't concern myself with typing speed too much - if the speed at which your can write is your bottleneck, you are either much too clever to be in normal software development or you should stop using COBOL.

bane 15y ago

The home-row (touch) typists I know are without exception, all the non-tech people I know. I can't even think of a single tech person in my entire career that typed like this. When I was in High School we were required to take a typing class. I sat next to two of my nerd friends. When the teacher had little tests or races, we always came in 1st 2nd and 3rd in the class in terms of speed an accuracy, and between the 3 of us we probably used 8 fingers combined.

X-Istence 15y ago

I don't necessarily touch type since I almost never use my pinky other than to hold down the shift button. I don't really see the need to learn how to hold my hands on homerow to type better, I can type about 98 - 110 wpm without any issues without looking at my keyboard. The way I got better at typing and typing fast was to be on very busy IRC channels where getting a word in edgewise without missing any of the conversation required a lot of fast typing. I understand that most of this was meant for the people that are hunt and peck type. I don't think it is at all necessary for people that are able to type at a rapid rate using their own style to relearn how to type.

bishboria 15y ago

I'm a coder and I only learned to touch-type recently (within the last year) in QWERTY, it felt better but QWERTY itself just didn't feel right to me. I've since moved over to Colemak layout and I've never looked back (combined with a TypeMatrix keyboard).

misuse-permit 15y ago

Blehg, GNU Typist recommends putting two spaces after period. Someone needs a lesson from a typographer.

2muchcoffeeman 15y ago

I never learned to touch type. But if I use some amount of concentration I can type without looking at the keyboard. It's a bit like playing the guitar. I can see a mental picture of the keyboard and I can hit them with fairly high accuracy. I use most of my fingers but the pinkies are often regulated to hitting modifiers. Strangely I cannot picture many of the punctuation keys very well. Nor digits; top row or keypad. I remember having to hunt and peck. But kids now use the keyboard from a younger age, I think the need for formal typing skills is not going to be necessary.

gnosis 15y ago
"But if I use some amount of concentration I can type without looking at the keyboard." A competent touch typist should be able to type with his eyes closed, and without needing to concentrate at all. Typing becomes a reflex action, and you can concentrate on finding the right words, or on your code/problem itself.