3 ms·

I cant agree more. I could cry. Ive been on a crusade for over a year to scale back diddly js frameworks because 'scale'. Ive heard many bullshit excuses before

I cant agree more. I could cry. Ive been on a crusade for over a year to scale back diddly js frameworks because 'scale'. Ive heard many bullshit excuses before but sacrificing performance and reliability for being "scalabable" is beyond mind boggling. It gives me a panic attack when medium articles are the chief architect and purveyors of software development truths. I live and work in developing countries and could never understand why sites keep getting slower around 2017 before I stumbled into medium with their React and K8s articles ad nauseum. I realised the juniors and intermediate devs are reading these things as truth and applying it as gospel. My head hurts just thinking about react.

deleted 6y ago
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toss1 6y ago
Yup, all these rapid-dev frameworks and tools may be fantastic for rapidly developing and refining a prototype. But that is just the beginning of the process, the job is barely half done. The devs must then focus on exactly what is needed in the code to refactor and strip out every unnecessary instruction and byte of download. Page load times and refresh times that are more than 3-digit milliseconds rapidly become unusable. When it is 5-dicit milliseconds, on a modest machine, you are shipping junk, and should not consider yourself a developer. Amateurs can do better. Wow, do I miss the days of the 5KB web page competitions...
- vagrantJin 6y ago
  Your sarcasm is well and truly appreciated but misplaced. The idea is that these libs and framework make an honest attempt at making web apps. Also well intentioned but wide off the mark. Most people access the internet through mobile phones[1] with dodgy broadband connectivity, hence don't need an app running inside another app - do you understand the redundancy and the pitfalls of janky, horrible UIs for the marginal performance improvement? Or the famous It doesn't reload the whole page...very few people actually care about. If you are building the next instagram, go right ahead and use bleeding edge js frameworks, but not every site/blog needs to be an app. [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/platform-market-share/desktop-mobile-tablet https://gs.statcounter.com/platform-market-share/desktop-mob...
  - toss1 6y ago
    Ha! I think we actually agree pretty strongly. Except that I'm not even sure that the next Instagram or whatever should be a web app - it should be a native app. I saw the beginning of the "write once - run anywhere" concept decades ago. Sounded fantastic. Yet here we are and it is more like "write once - stumble and crawl someplace". It is most discouraging that many major houses do it so badly, and even their native apps are similar bloatware...
varrock 6y ago
How would you personally go about building a sophisticated web application?
- vagrantJin 6y ago
  By first figuring out if I need to build a web application.

deleted 6y ago

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toss1 6y ago

Yup, all these rapid-dev frameworks and tools may be fantastic for rapidly developing and refining a prototype. But that is just the beginning of the process, the job is barely half done. The devs must then focus on exactly what is needed in the code to refactor and strip out every unnecessary instruction and byte of download. Page load times and refresh times that are more than 3-digit milliseconds rapidly become unusable. When it is 5-dicit milliseconds, on a modest machine, you are shipping junk, and should not consider yourself a developer. Amateurs can do better. Wow, do I miss the days of the 5KB web page competitions...

vagrantJin 6y ago
Your sarcasm is well and truly appreciated but misplaced. The idea is that these libs and framework make an honest attempt at making web apps. Also well intentioned but wide off the mark. Most people access the internet through mobile phones[1] with dodgy broadband connectivity, hence don't need an app running inside another app - do you understand the redundancy and the pitfalls of janky, horrible UIs for the marginal performance improvement? Or the famous It doesn't reload the whole page...very few people actually care about. If you are building the next instagram, go right ahead and use bleeding edge js frameworks, but not every site/blog needs to be an app. [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/platform-market-share/desktop-mobile-tablet https://gs.statcounter.com/platform-market-share/desktop-mob...
- toss1 6y ago
  Ha! I think we actually agree pretty strongly. Except that I'm not even sure that the next Instagram or whatever should be a web app - it should be a native app. I saw the beginning of the "write once - run anywhere" concept decades ago. Sounded fantastic. Yet here we are and it is more like "write once - stumble and crawl someplace". It is most discouraging that many major houses do it so badly, and even their native apps are similar bloatware...

varrock 6y ago

How would you personally go about building a sophisticated web application?

vagrantJin 6y ago
By first figuring out if I need to build a web application.