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Why Julia Is Turning Heads in 2021

43 points by tmfi 6y ago

codemac 6y ago
Did this article ever answer the question?
- adamcstephens 6y ago
  It’s a statement not a question.
threatofrain 6y ago
https://pypl.github.io/PYPL.html?country= https://pypl.github.io/PYPL.html?country= https://redmonk.com/sogrady/files/2021/03/lang.rank_.0121.wm_.png https://redmonk.com/sogrady/files/2021/03/lang.rank_.0121.wm... https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=%2Fm%2F0j3djl7,%2Fm%2F0212jm,%2Fm%2F053_x https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&ge...
irowe 6y ago
I’ve wondered why Julia hasn’t found more root in places where MATLAB is the primary software used for simulation, just as a way to save on licensing. From what I’ve heard from managers, that cost is not insignificant.
- 7thaccount 6y ago
  Matlab is extremely expensive. Not just for a single license (thousands of dollars), but critical libraries you may need (Ex: database, GPU, AI, electrical engineering stuff...etc) seem to only be provided as paid add-ons known as "tool-boxes" that costs thousands each. In my experience, Python had all of that for free, and Mathematica had all of that as part of the base language (no tool-boxes) so you pay like $3k and get access to thousands of functions.
  - snicker7 6y ago
    Engineers cost money. A LOT of money. A few tens of thousands USD for libraries is not a major investment.
    - 7thaccount 6y ago
      My Python setup is free, Mathematica would be $3k, and Matlab would be ~$25k. I'm not sure what kind of deal a company gets for multiple engineers, but it would still be extremely expensive.
      - pioneer42 6y ago
        Still pocket change for a large corporation. Throw in vendor lock-in, and the fact that the ~$25k Matlab license includes technical support and it's an easy decision. Tech support is a big deal. Most companies would rather contract out than build an in-house team. Better to focus on what you do best and let someone else do what they do best. Not arguing for any technical merit of Matlab (not talking about Simulink, either). Just the business side.
        7thaccount 6y ago
        I assume that price is negotiated down per employee for bulk purchases, or else it's not a drop in the bucket even for a large corporation. Just two of those would be a beginning salary for an engineer. Yes, companies do like support.
        adgjlsfhk1 6y ago
        Julia has julia-computing to provide this type of enterprise support, but it obviously isn't the same.
- MengerSponge 6y ago
  People who only need "core" Matlab can easily switch, but toolboxes carry tons of validated code, and a lot of additional hardware/software firms expect you to use Matlab to interface with their products. For example, COMSOL only allows interactive programming via Matlab, and Matlab can interface with Cosworth's Pi Toolbox as long as you have the right license key.
0-_-0 6y ago
Only on HN is it obvious that "Julia" in the title refers to a programming language :)
- b0afc375b5 6y ago
  Oh yeah interesting observation. If it was posted on reddit I would have assumed Julia is an actress. That or something related to Cowboy Bebop.
internetslave 6y ago
For years I’ve seen these hype Julia articles. Yet, out of all the open source, all the companies I’ve worked for, I’ve never come across any valuable system running Julia. I’ve never needed open source and found that only Julia serves the need. I’m kind of tired of programming click bait that ends up on HN. Much like the “front end programming has failed” article that is popular right now. It’s all for clicks. The reality is mainstream programming paradigms are effective and work.
- jll29 6y ago
  I tried Julia in 2018 as my new programming language to learn that year. The syntax is clean and simple, and I remember it as a "Pascal for scientific computing" - as easy to read as Python yet faster execution. I liked the static type checking and compilation, but found it frustrating at the time that the sample code from a book I had purchased didn't work; overall, the language seemed to be still too much in flux to be entrusted with an important project, although I have spoken with fellow scientists who use it as their main language for experimentation and are happy. Python is clearly winning because most important libraries are C++ under the bonnet - or even Cython (which is used e.g. by SpaCy), and its ecosystem with IPython, Jupyter notebooks and comprehensive data science libraries (pandas, matplotlib, sklearn, numpy, ...).
  - sidpatil 6y ago
    Python has had a much longer head start, so it's no surprise it's still widely popular. You also bring up a good point regarding Julia's changing syntax and behavior—I've encountered the same issue trying copypasted code from various tutorials online (they didn't work.) Julia's package ecosystem is rapidly catching up with Python's, at least for the packages you mentioned. I.e. Julia offers DataFrames.jl (its Pandas competitor), Plots and Gadfly (its Matplotlib competitors), and a few different ML libraries (its sklearn competitor). As for Numpy, its functionality is already offered through the base library in Julia, so there's no need for a separate package. One especially nice feature of Julia is its interoperability with other languages. For example, if you need to use Python-specific functionality, you can do so from Julia through the PyCall library. Likewise for R, MATLAB, Java, etc. (C and Fortran FFIs are already offered through the base library.)
elzbardico 6y ago
It is not. There's only this constant spamming done by julia advocates on HN. It is getting annoying TBF

43 points by tmfi 6y ago

codemac 6y ago

Did this article ever answer the question?

adamcstephens 6y ago
It’s a statement not a question.

threatofrain 6y ago

https://pypl.github.io/PYPL.html?country= https://pypl.github.io/PYPL.html?country= https://redmonk.com/sogrady/files/2021/03/lang.rank_.0121.wm_.png https://redmonk.com/sogrady/files/2021/03/lang.rank_.0121.wm... https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=%2Fm%2F0j3djl7,%2Fm%2F0212jm,%2Fm%2F053_x https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&ge...

irowe 6y ago

I’ve wondered why Julia hasn’t found more root in places where MATLAB is the primary software used for simulation, just as a way to save on licensing. From what I’ve heard from managers, that cost is not insignificant.

7thaccount 6y ago
Matlab is extremely expensive. Not just for a single license (thousands of dollars), but critical libraries you may need (Ex: database, GPU, AI, electrical engineering stuff...etc) seem to only be provided as paid add-ons known as "tool-boxes" that costs thousands each. In my experience, Python had all of that for free, and Mathematica had all of that as part of the base language (no tool-boxes) so you pay like $3k and get access to thousands of functions.
- snicker7 6y ago
  Engineers cost money. A LOT of money. A few tens of thousands USD for libraries is not a major investment.
  - 7thaccount 6y ago
    My Python setup is free, Mathematica would be $3k, and Matlab would be ~$25k. I'm not sure what kind of deal a company gets for multiple engineers, but it would still be extremely expensive.
    - pioneer42 6y ago
      Still pocket change for a large corporation. Throw in vendor lock-in, and the fact that the ~$25k Matlab license includes technical support and it's an easy decision. Tech support is a big deal. Most companies would rather contract out than build an in-house team. Better to focus on what you do best and let someone else do what they do best. Not arguing for any technical merit of Matlab (not talking about Simulink, either). Just the business side.
      - 7thaccount 6y ago
        I assume that price is negotiated down per employee for bulk purchases, or else it's not a drop in the bucket even for a large corporation. Just two of those would be a beginning salary for an engineer. Yes, companies do like support.
      - adgjlsfhk1 6y ago
        Julia has julia-computing to provide this type of enterprise support, but it obviously isn't the same.
MengerSponge 6y ago
People who only need "core" Matlab can easily switch, but toolboxes carry tons of validated code, and a lot of additional hardware/software firms expect you to use Matlab to interface with their products. For example, COMSOL only allows interactive programming via Matlab, and Matlab can interface with Cosworth's Pi Toolbox as long as you have the right license key.

0-_-0 6y ago

Only on HN is it obvious that "Julia" in the title refers to a programming language :)

b0afc375b5 6y ago
Oh yeah interesting observation. If it was posted on reddit I would have assumed Julia is an actress. That or something related to Cowboy Bebop.

internetslave 6y ago

For years I’ve seen these hype Julia articles. Yet, out of all the open source, all the companies I’ve worked for, I’ve never come across any valuable system running Julia. I’ve never needed open source and found that only Julia serves the need. I’m kind of tired of programming click bait that ends up on HN. Much like the “front end programming has failed” article that is popular right now. It’s all for clicks. The reality is mainstream programming paradigms are effective and work.

jll29 6y ago
I tried Julia in 2018 as my new programming language to learn that year. The syntax is clean and simple, and I remember it as a "Pascal for scientific computing" - as easy to read as Python yet faster execution. I liked the static type checking and compilation, but found it frustrating at the time that the sample code from a book I had purchased didn't work; overall, the language seemed to be still too much in flux to be entrusted with an important project, although I have spoken with fellow scientists who use it as their main language for experimentation and are happy. Python is clearly winning because most important libraries are C++ under the bonnet - or even Cython (which is used e.g. by SpaCy), and its ecosystem with IPython, Jupyter notebooks and comprehensive data science libraries (pandas, matplotlib, sklearn, numpy, ...).
- sidpatil 6y ago
  Python has had a much longer head start, so it's no surprise it's still widely popular. You also bring up a good point regarding Julia's changing syntax and behavior—I've encountered the same issue trying copypasted code from various tutorials online (they didn't work.) Julia's package ecosystem is rapidly catching up with Python's, at least for the packages you mentioned. I.e. Julia offers DataFrames.jl (its Pandas competitor), Plots and Gadfly (its Matplotlib competitors), and a few different ML libraries (its sklearn competitor). As for Numpy, its functionality is already offered through the base library in Julia, so there's no need for a separate package. One especially nice feature of Julia is its interoperability with other languages. For example, if you need to use Python-specific functionality, you can do so from Julia through the PyCall library. Likewise for R, MATLAB, Java, etc. (C and Fortran FFIs are already offered through the base library.)

elzbardico 6y ago

It is not. There's only this constant spamming done by julia advocates on HN. It is getting annoying TBF