3 ms·

What is so different with AstraZeneca? Should we expect similar side effects with other vaccines?

InTheArena 6y ago
Different type of vaccine. No.
mancerayder 6y ago
There aren't known blood clot side effects from Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna and J&J. These vaccines are intended to have effects, since that's how your immune system is stimulated to produce a reaction, hence reactive vaccines, but there aren't blood clot stories hitting the headlines. The blood clot stories hitting the headlines are doing a disservice. If one out of a million of something happens, the human cognitive bias will make it feel like it's likelier than it is. .. or do Europeans prefer to be locked down for the rest of their lives? People should ignore the news media and take the vaccine for God's sake, it hasn't killed 40% of the UK, has it ?
- mancerayder 6y ago
  Downvote all you want, it does seem to me that people are simultaneously anti-vax and pro-lockdown. To wit, here is an article showing how rare the clots are: "German regulators said they had received 31 reports of rare blood clots in the head in recipients of the AstraZeneca vaccine and nine deaths up to March 29, roughly doubling Cooke said the EMA will include the Germany cases in its review "and they will form part of the ongoing evaluation that the committee is undertaking, as will any additional cases that are reported from other countries and regions.” Based on the numbers reported to the agency so far, there have been 4.8 cases of the rare blood clots per million doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine administered, she said." (https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210331-eu-says-no-evidence-to-restrict-astrazeneca-jab-use https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210331-eu-says-no-evide...)
  - tonfa 6y ago
    "Based on the numbers reported to the agency so far" The key word is "so far", the article explains that Germany saw the number double since the reporting. https://www.ft.com/content/d5cd63c6-af01-4d29-a5e5-b69ade4f3803 https://www.ft.com/content/d5cd63c6-af01-4d29-a5e5-b69ade4f3... Reports it as 10x the normal occurence of 3 per 100k. (and I assume that's before doing further slicing, probably slicing for younger women would show even more impact?). I'm all for vaccine but it's a tight rope to have a successful rollout in EU: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/03/astrazeneca-vaccine-blood-clot-issue-wont-go-away/618451/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/03/astrazene... Maybe they could consider reserving the non-AZ doses to the most likely to be affected demographic. (personally I'm lucky enough to be in a country that's not planning on using the AZ vaccine so there's no question, but rest of EU is different)
raverbashing 6y ago
One of the suspicions is that AZ uses a non-stabilized form of the Spike protein, whereas Pfizer/Moderna change them a bit to make them stable.
Al-Khwarizmi 6y ago
Judging from UK data, it seems like the Pfizer vaccine does not have this particular side effect: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56616119 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56616119 "The MHRA said it had received 22 reports of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) - where a blood clot forms in the brain - and eight reports of "other thrombosis events with low platelets [the cells involved in clotting]" following use of the Oxford-AstraZeneca jab, out of a total of 18.1 million doses given up to and including 24 March (...) Meanwhile, the MHRA said there had been no reports of blood clots following use of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. As of 21 March, an estimated 10.8 million first doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech jab had been administered in the UK, the regulator said."

Different type of vaccine. No.

There aren't known blood clot side effects from Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna and J&J. These vaccines are intended to have effects, since that's how your immune system is stimulated to produce a reaction, hence reactive vaccines, but there aren't blood clot stories hitting the headlines. The blood clot stories hitting the headlines are doing a disservice. If one out of a million of something happens, the human cognitive bias will make it feel like it's likelier than it is. .. or do Europeans prefer to be locked down for the rest of their lives? People should ignore the news media and take the vaccine for God's sake, it hasn't killed 40% of the UK, has it ?

mancerayder 6y ago
Downvote all you want, it does seem to me that people are simultaneously anti-vax and pro-lockdown. To wit, here is an article showing how rare the clots are: "German regulators said they had received 31 reports of rare blood clots in the head in recipients of the AstraZeneca vaccine and nine deaths up to March 29, roughly doubling Cooke said the EMA will include the Germany cases in its review "and they will form part of the ongoing evaluation that the committee is undertaking, as will any additional cases that are reported from other countries and regions.” Based on the numbers reported to the agency so far, there have been 4.8 cases of the rare blood clots per million doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine administered, she said." (https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210331-eu-says-no-evidence-to-restrict-astrazeneca-jab-use https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210331-eu-says-no-evide...)
- tonfa 6y ago
  "Based on the numbers reported to the agency so far" The key word is "so far", the article explains that Germany saw the number double since the reporting. https://www.ft.com/content/d5cd63c6-af01-4d29-a5e5-b69ade4f3803 https://www.ft.com/content/d5cd63c6-af01-4d29-a5e5-b69ade4f3... Reports it as 10x the normal occurence of 3 per 100k. (and I assume that's before doing further slicing, probably slicing for younger women would show even more impact?). I'm all for vaccine but it's a tight rope to have a successful rollout in EU: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/03/astrazeneca-vaccine-blood-clot-issue-wont-go-away/618451/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/03/astrazene... Maybe they could consider reserving the non-AZ doses to the most likely to be affected demographic. (personally I'm lucky enough to be in a country that's not planning on using the AZ vaccine so there's no question, but rest of EU is different)

raverbashing 6y ago

One of the suspicions is that AZ uses a non-stabilized form of the Spike protein, whereas Pfizer/Moderna change them a bit to make them stable.

Al-Khwarizmi 6y ago

Judging from UK data, it seems like the Pfizer vaccine does not have this particular side effect: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56616119 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56616119 "The MHRA said it had received 22 reports of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) - where a blood clot forms in the brain - and eight reports of "other thrombosis events with low platelets [the cells involved in clotting]" following use of the Oxford-AstraZeneca jab, out of a total of 18.1 million doses given up to and including 24 March (...) Meanwhile, the MHRA said there had been no reports of blood clots following use of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. As of 21 March, an estimated 10.8 million first doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech jab had been administered in the UK, the regulator said."