5 ms·

Wait until you hear about California's Prop 13...

by Drunk_Engineer 6y ago

HarryHirsch 6y ago
That was the point, wasn't it, real estate investment companies dodging taxes with a bone thrown to Grandma.
- pydry 6y ago
  The Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Foundation - the primary lobby group behind prop 13 - sold it to voters almost entirely on the basis of not kicking grandma out of her home. Since then they've lobbied to slash California state pensions on the basis of balancing the budget. If Grandma was a teacher she can go f*k herself, apparently.
rcpt 6y ago
For the uninitiated https://www.taxfairnessproject.org/ https://www.taxfairnessproject.org/ But honestly if you're happy living in California ignorance is bliss on this one
- HarryHirsch 6y ago
  Why are they talking about homeowners but not about shopping malls and office buildings? The whole point of Proposition 13 was to lock in taxation on commercial real estate which is rarely sold.
  - mindslight 6y ago
    It's the standard pattern of corporate activism, dividing people into groups and encouraging them battle one another. The outraged people demand more oppression on the other group to level the playing field, and invent justifications like how it would be economically sensible to make longtime residents move out of their family homes by raising the taxes to reflect an imagined paper asset valuation - in other words even if you own your home outright, you still shouldn't be able to escape the economic treadmill (the crab bucket mentality in action). The people in the crosshairs then have to fight back to keep what they have, while the corporations escape most scrutiny. When the conflict boils over to the point where a law might be passed, the corporations pay off the politicians to grant them an exception, and continue unhindered. Heck, our whole system is set up this way. For example why is it even taken as some given that property taxes need to continually go up in the first place?! The setup has been made big enough such that most people won't work to understand the whole thing to critique it, instead giving up to focus on the individual actors they most strongly perceive. The overall situation becomes "nobody's fault" and just the way things are - oppression by construction while us plebs fight over scraps.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      > Heck, our whole system is set up this way. For example why is it even taken as some given that property taxes need to continually go up in the first place?! How do you propose governments address rising materials and labor costs? It’s obvious some geographical areas are more desirable than others, causing prices to rise. How could a government pay employees sufficiently so that employees can then pay for increased land/rent costs without raising taxes?
      - mindslight 6y ago
        I'm obviously questioning the "wisdom" of why those also need to be increasing, especially as much as they do (the "treadmill" I alluded to). But I guess you'd rather force ideas into small boxes so you can jump on them - the familiar pattern that I went on to describe in the next sentence. I won't convince anyone about the larger topic in a comment thread, so I'll just point out that we're living in the most productive time in history and yet we're still churning as hard as ever.
  - doktorhladnjak 6y ago
    It's even worse than that. You can create a holding company for the building, then just sell the company. Since there's no sale of the property itself, the property taxes are locked in forever at a low rate.
    - powerapple 6y ago
      Don't you have to pay tax if you use company property for personal use? I do not know American taxation system, but it would be reasonable to assume so.
      - rcpt 6y ago
        In California, property doesn't get reassessments unless it's sold. If the owning corporation never sells the land it's taxed based on purchase price forever. This how we have private golf courses in the middle of Los Angeles and dilapidated shacks adjacent to Google's global HQ.
  - rcpt 6y ago
    This is an article about homeowners. Simply because gas stations and golf courses also get a big stupid tax cut doesn't mean anything goes for residential investors.
Redoubts 6y ago
It would be fun if we got some federal law which invalidated this landed gentry legislation.

Wait until you hear about California's Prop 13...

HarryHirsch 6y ago

That was the point, wasn't it, real estate investment companies dodging taxes with a bone thrown to Grandma.

pydry 6y ago
The Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Foundation - the primary lobby group behind prop 13 - sold it to voters almost entirely on the basis of not kicking grandma out of her home. Since then they've lobbied to slash California state pensions on the basis of balancing the budget. If Grandma was a teacher she can go f*k herself, apparently.

rcpt 6y ago

For the uninitiated https://www.taxfairnessproject.org/ https://www.taxfairnessproject.org/ But honestly if you're happy living in California ignorance is bliss on this one

HarryHirsch 6y ago
Why are they talking about homeowners but not about shopping malls and office buildings? The whole point of Proposition 13 was to lock in taxation on commercial real estate which is rarely sold.
- mindslight 6y ago
  It's the standard pattern of corporate activism, dividing people into groups and encouraging them battle one another. The outraged people demand more oppression on the other group to level the playing field, and invent justifications like how it would be economically sensible to make longtime residents move out of their family homes by raising the taxes to reflect an imagined paper asset valuation - in other words even if you own your home outright, you still shouldn't be able to escape the economic treadmill (the crab bucket mentality in action). The people in the crosshairs then have to fight back to keep what they have, while the corporations escape most scrutiny. When the conflict boils over to the point where a law might be passed, the corporations pay off the politicians to grant them an exception, and continue unhindered. Heck, our whole system is set up this way. For example why is it even taken as some given that property taxes need to continually go up in the first place?! The setup has been made big enough such that most people won't work to understand the whole thing to critique it, instead giving up to focus on the individual actors they most strongly perceive. The overall situation becomes "nobody's fault" and just the way things are - oppression by construction while us plebs fight over scraps.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    > Heck, our whole system is set up this way. For example why is it even taken as some given that property taxes need to continually go up in the first place?! How do you propose governments address rising materials and labor costs? It’s obvious some geographical areas are more desirable than others, causing prices to rise. How could a government pay employees sufficiently so that employees can then pay for increased land/rent costs without raising taxes?
    - mindslight 6y ago
      I'm obviously questioning the "wisdom" of why those also need to be increasing, especially as much as they do (the "treadmill" I alluded to). But I guess you'd rather force ideas into small boxes so you can jump on them - the familiar pattern that I went on to describe in the next sentence. I won't convince anyone about the larger topic in a comment thread, so I'll just point out that we're living in the most productive time in history and yet we're still churning as hard as ever.
- doktorhladnjak 6y ago
  It's even worse than that. You can create a holding company for the building, then just sell the company. Since there's no sale of the property itself, the property taxes are locked in forever at a low rate.
  - powerapple 6y ago
    Don't you have to pay tax if you use company property for personal use? I do not know American taxation system, but it would be reasonable to assume so.
    - rcpt 6y ago
      In California, property doesn't get reassessments unless it's sold. If the owning corporation never sells the land it's taxed based on purchase price forever. This how we have private golf courses in the middle of Los Angeles and dilapidated shacks adjacent to Google's global HQ.
- rcpt 6y ago
  This is an article about homeowners. Simply because gas stations and golf courses also get a big stupid tax cut doesn't mean anything goes for residential investors.

Redoubts 6y ago

It would be fun if we got some federal law which invalidated this landed gentry legislation.