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The US did switch to the metric system over 45 years ago[1]. Many of us just prefer the customary units for many everyday uses for various reasons. For example,

by User23 6y ago

The US did switch to the metric system over 45 years ago[1]. Many of us just prefer the customary units for many everyday uses for various reasons. For example, I find degrees Fahrenheit a more sensible choice for representing outdoor temperatures since the degree increments are slightly smaller and the typical outdoor temperature nearly always falls in the positive range. For Celsius, the triple point of water zero is a great reference for lab work, it doesn’t have any particular relevance to deciding what to wear. A base 12 distance unit also has some pleasant properties. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_Conversion_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_Conversion_Act

short_sells_poo 6y ago
> Celsius, the triple point of water zero is a great reference for lab work, it doesn’t have any particular relevance to deciding what to wear. Uh let me do some primary school math for you: >30 Degrees Celsius: hot/summer weather. 20 Degrees Celsius: warm spring, t-shirt weather. 10 Degrees Celsius: light jacket. 0 Degrees Celsius: literally freezing. Winter clothing. -15 Degrees Celsius: requires heavy & layered clothing to avoid hypothermia and/or frostbite. -30 Degrees Celsius: arctic gear. Look, the turning point between light clothing and winter clothing is literally built into the system: 0 degrees is the triple point of water as you said so yourself. There are many arguments why the US hasn't seen a wide-scale adoption of metric temperature, but I'd posit that "objective ease of use" isn't it. You lot are just used to a legacy system with all it's warts and it's more convenient to go with the joneses than try to force change. I think trying to advance arguments how it's more convenient is a fools errand because it's literally just force of habit. I can promise you that the various feet, inches, fluid ounces and other shenanigans are mind-bogglingly confusing for anyone who is used to metric. Doubly so given the very annoying ratios that emerge with square/cubic/volume units.
- lebuffon 6y ago
  During Canada's transition to metric in the 1970's a lady called into the local radio station's call in program. She issued a challenge to anyone who supported the English system to call with the answer to this question: What is 5/8ths of 2 ounces, 4 drams and 5 grains? :-) She was an immigrant from Czechia and had to learn the British Apothecary system when she arrived in the 1950s. To her credit she had mastered it but it was lunacy.
  - User23 6y ago
    1 1/4ths ounce, 2 1/2 drams and 3 1/8th grains is what I came up with off the top of my head. Is some additional normalization expected? US customary isn’t as complex in practical use we just use fractions of our units. Of course there are fun questions like “which ounce?” Not knowing that I don’t think I can do better.
    - Symbiote 6y ago
      At minimum, 1¼ oz was probably expected to be expressed as 1 oz 2 dr, and so on for the others. But I understood "2 ounces, 4 drams and 5 grains" to be a single measurement. An apothecary dram (ʒ) is 60 grains, and an apothecary ounce (℥) is 480 grains, so we have 1205 grains. ⅝ of that is 753⅛ gr, which is 1 ℥ 4 ʒ 33⅛ gr. I think these measurements would have been in common use by pharmacists ... although [1] says they're still in use some times in the USA, or have only recently fallen out of use. It's also interesting to see the mixtures of units in common use there. The UK has Imperial units for several daily things (body height and weight, road distance and speed) yet the medical profession actively avoids use of the system -- equipment is only metric. This is to avoid any errors made during conversion, and ensure day-to-day familiarity with the units. [1] https://nursekey.com/u-s-customary-units-and-the-apothecary-system/ https://nursekey.com/u-s-customary-units-and-the-apothecary-...
      - lebuffon 6y ago
        But I understood "2 ounces, 4 drams and 5 grains" to be a single measurement. Correct. Three columns required, similar to the old British money system of Pounds, Shillings and Pence.
- michaericalribo 6y ago
  I think you’ve missed the point of the post you’re responding to, and even remade it... the imperial system is exactly legacy, and its idiosyncrasies aren’t warts per se—for someone who’s able to use it (ie not an outsider looking in without familiarity//triggered to the point of “primary school” incivility), it has some convenient properties, and we’re quite pleased to keep using it day-to-day, thanks. (Sidebar: the turning point between very warm and hot is literally built into the system at 100F. If you think 30C is hot, you’ve clearly not spent much time here in the summer... and it doesn’t feel really cold until you’re down around 0F anyway.) > various feet, inches, fluid ounces and other shenanigans are mind-bogglingly confusing for anyone who is used to metric This isn’t relevant—no one is asking you lot to change from metric, and it isn’t confusing to our lot. We manage quite easily not to get our minds getting boggled... we’re even able to switch between multiple units, no problem, it’s not as confusing or challenging as you make it sound.
  - short_sells_poo 6y ago
    Apologies I was perhaps too much tongue in cheek, there was no offence meant. On the other hand, you too are arguing against points I haven't made. I'm not saying the imperial system is bad on it's own. I have no opinion on this. Anyone who is used to it will find it intuitive. However, saying that it's somehow objectively more geared for humans is also incorrect, because as I wrote it is exactly as convenient to use for people used to metric as metric is for people used to imperial. > the turning point between very warm and hot is literally built into the system at 100F. If you think 30C is hot, you’ve clearly not spent much time here in the summer... and it doesn’t feel really cold until you’re down around 0F anyway Again, this is subjective. 30C is hot for many people in the Nordics, and business as usual for someone in the tropics. The same will apply whether we use the imperial system or not. But I personally have no intuition how 0F or 100F feels like. It's all subjective (how it feels like). I was merely arguing that trying to lean on subjective/intuitive feel for the units to make a general case of them being useful for daily life is still just subjective. Imperial is intuitive for people who are used to it and highly unintuitive for anyone who isn't. Conversely, metric is intuitive for people who are used to it - even for daily life and imperial is not.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
hnbad 6y ago
I'm always confused when people say Fahrenheit is great because it's "more granular" and makes it easier to decide what to wear. Do other people use clothing this differently from me? How many increments worth of clothing variation do you have in your wardrobe? Based on all conversations I've had so far, it seems Americans just think their intuition being tied to Fahrenheit (because that's what they're familiar with) make Fahrenheit intrinsically more intuitive. I live in the North West of Germany, so based on the local climate this is how temperature works for me: 180°C/200°C (365°F/392°F): oven temperature; this is a good default for most frozen goods, e.g. store bought frozen pizza Roughly 100°C (212°F): boiling water; this is what comes out of your kettle Roughly 60°C (140°F): hot water; anything above this will probably scald you Above 30°C (86°F): warm summer; without wind chill it's probably going to be humid so loose-fitting clothing is a must Around 25°C (77°F): warm bordering on hot; above this temperature it's probably going to be annoying indoors without ventilation or AC, a few degrees more and I'll find it hard to focus while working Roughly 20°C (68°F): "room temperature"; legs and hands may get cold after sitting for prolonged times but otherwise it's warm enough to wear a t-shirt outdoors but too cold for shorts Around 15°C (59°F): a bit chilly; may feel warmer in spring but below this temperature it's probably getting a bit too cold for t-shirts Below 10°C (50°F): cold; you should wear a jacket and with a bit of wind it can get uncomfortable Around 0°C (30°F): freezing point; risk of black ice and there might be snow, so you'll need proper footwear Below -10°C (14°F): very cold; you probably want to invest in proper winter clothing because those jeans might get a bit chilly Below -20°C (-4°F): extremely cold; it doesn't get this cold normally so you're probably not equipped to handle this, time to bring out that winter gear you bought for your last skiing vacation Note that this is aligned with the metric scale because that's what I've grown up with and hence what I've tied my intuitions to. If you looked at the Fahrenheit temperatures in isolation they would seem completely arbitrary so it's not surprising the inverse is true (e.g. 80°F is 26.7°C -- and this also settles the "more increments" argument as Celsius temperatures are usually given with a decimal and rounded in casual conversation).
- jmholla 6y ago
  > Note that this is aligned with the metric scale because that's what I've grown up with and hence what I've tied my intuitions to. That's a bit unfair. You're coming from Celsius. If someone we're coming from Farenheit, they could round your scale to the nearest tens then complain how Celsius's fractions are so arbitrary for these cutoffs. (Not including your boiling water references since this is about weather.)
u801e 6y ago
> Many of us just prefer the customary units for many everyday uses for various reasons. The switch wasn't effective because there wasn't a concerted effort to to make people switch by the government. They could have easily made it such that weather reports use Celsius in addition to Fahrenheit, speedometers in cars display speed in kilometers per hour by default, etc. Right now, we have a mix because certain products started using metric on their own (e.g., soft drinks with their 2 liter bottles, car manufacturers using liters to measure engine displacement instead of cubic inches, etc.).
bhupy 6y ago
For a variety of reasons, I prefer Fahrenheit over Celsius for everyday temperatures. But, genuine question, what could possibly be the advantage to using a base 12 unit for measuring distance?
- User23 6y ago
  Taking a third or sixth without a repeating decimal. I believe the ancient Mayans used base 60 for similar reasons. Edit: I misremembered. It was the Babylonians that used base 60.
  - bhupy 6y ago
    In what contexts is taking 1/3 or 1/6 a common pattern?

by User23 6y ago

short_sells_poo 6y ago

> Celsius, the triple point of water zero is a great reference for lab work, it doesn’t have any particular relevance to deciding what to wear. Uh let me do some primary school math for you: >30 Degrees Celsius: hot/summer weather. 20 Degrees Celsius: warm spring, t-shirt weather. 10 Degrees Celsius: light jacket. 0 Degrees Celsius: literally freezing. Winter clothing. -15 Degrees Celsius: requires heavy & layered clothing to avoid hypothermia and/or frostbite. -30 Degrees Celsius: arctic gear. Look, the turning point between light clothing and winter clothing is literally built into the system: 0 degrees is the triple point of water as you said so yourself. There are many arguments why the US hasn't seen a wide-scale adoption of metric temperature, but I'd posit that "objective ease of use" isn't it. You lot are just used to a legacy system with all it's warts and it's more convenient to go with the joneses than try to force change. I think trying to advance arguments how it's more convenient is a fools errand because it's literally just force of habit. I can promise you that the various feet, inches, fluid ounces and other shenanigans are mind-bogglingly confusing for anyone who is used to metric. Doubly so given the very annoying ratios that emerge with square/cubic/volume units.

lebuffon 6y ago
During Canada's transition to metric in the 1970's a lady called into the local radio station's call in program. She issued a challenge to anyone who supported the English system to call with the answer to this question: What is 5/8ths of 2 ounces, 4 drams and 5 grains? :-) She was an immigrant from Czechia and had to learn the British Apothecary system when she arrived in the 1950s. To her credit she had mastered it but it was lunacy.
- User23 6y ago
  1 1/4ths ounce, 2 1/2 drams and 3 1/8th grains is what I came up with off the top of my head. Is some additional normalization expected? US customary isn’t as complex in practical use we just use fractions of our units. Of course there are fun questions like “which ounce?” Not knowing that I don’t think I can do better.
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    At minimum, 1¼ oz was probably expected to be expressed as 1 oz 2 dr, and so on for the others. But I understood "2 ounces, 4 drams and 5 grains" to be a single measurement. An apothecary dram (ʒ) is 60 grains, and an apothecary ounce (℥) is 480 grains, so we have 1205 grains. ⅝ of that is 753⅛ gr, which is 1 ℥ 4 ʒ 33⅛ gr. I think these measurements would have been in common use by pharmacists ... although [1] says they're still in use some times in the USA, or have only recently fallen out of use. It's also interesting to see the mixtures of units in common use there. The UK has Imperial units for several daily things (body height and weight, road distance and speed) yet the medical profession actively avoids use of the system -- equipment is only metric. This is to avoid any errors made during conversion, and ensure day-to-day familiarity with the units. [1] https://nursekey.com/u-s-customary-units-and-the-apothecary-system/ https://nursekey.com/u-s-customary-units-and-the-apothecary-...
    - lebuffon 6y ago
      But I understood "2 ounces, 4 drams and 5 grains" to be a single measurement. Correct. Three columns required, similar to the old British money system of Pounds, Shillings and Pence.
michaericalribo 6y ago
I think you’ve missed the point of the post you’re responding to, and even remade it... the imperial system is exactly legacy, and its idiosyncrasies aren’t warts per se—for someone who’s able to use it (ie not an outsider looking in without familiarity//triggered to the point of “primary school” incivility), it has some convenient properties, and we’re quite pleased to keep using it day-to-day, thanks. (Sidebar: the turning point between very warm and hot is literally built into the system at 100F. If you think 30C is hot, you’ve clearly not spent much time here in the summer... and it doesn’t feel really cold until you’re down around 0F anyway.) > various feet, inches, fluid ounces and other shenanigans are mind-bogglingly confusing for anyone who is used to metric This isn’t relevant—no one is asking you lot to change from metric, and it isn’t confusing to our lot. We manage quite easily not to get our minds getting boggled... we’re even able to switch between multiple units, no problem, it’s not as confusing or challenging as you make it sound.
- short_sells_poo 6y ago
  Apologies I was perhaps too much tongue in cheek, there was no offence meant. On the other hand, you too are arguing against points I haven't made. I'm not saying the imperial system is bad on it's own. I have no opinion on this. Anyone who is used to it will find it intuitive. However, saying that it's somehow objectively more geared for humans is also incorrect, because as I wrote it is exactly as convenient to use for people used to metric as metric is for people used to imperial. > the turning point between very warm and hot is literally built into the system at 100F. If you think 30C is hot, you’ve clearly not spent much time here in the summer... and it doesn’t feel really cold until you’re down around 0F anyway Again, this is subjective. 30C is hot for many people in the Nordics, and business as usual for someone in the tropics. The same will apply whether we use the imperial system or not. But I personally have no intuition how 0F or 100F feels like. It's all subjective (how it feels like). I was merely arguing that trying to lean on subjective/intuitive feel for the units to make a general case of them being useful for daily life is still just subjective. Imperial is intuitive for people who are used to it and highly unintuitive for anyone who isn't. Conversely, metric is intuitive for people who are used to it - even for daily life and imperial is not.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

hnbad 6y ago

I'm always confused when people say Fahrenheit is great because it's "more granular" and makes it easier to decide what to wear. Do other people use clothing this differently from me? How many increments worth of clothing variation do you have in your wardrobe? Based on all conversations I've had so far, it seems Americans just think their intuition being tied to Fahrenheit (because that's what they're familiar with) make Fahrenheit intrinsically more intuitive. I live in the North West of Germany, so based on the local climate this is how temperature works for me: 180°C/200°C (365°F/392°F): oven temperature; this is a good default for most frozen goods, e.g. store bought frozen pizza Roughly 100°C (212°F): boiling water; this is what comes out of your kettle Roughly 60°C (140°F): hot water; anything above this will probably scald you Above 30°C (86°F): warm summer; without wind chill it's probably going to be humid so loose-fitting clothing is a must Around 25°C (77°F): warm bordering on hot; above this temperature it's probably going to be annoying indoors without ventilation or AC, a few degrees more and I'll find it hard to focus while working Roughly 20°C (68°F): "room temperature"; legs and hands may get cold after sitting for prolonged times but otherwise it's warm enough to wear a t-shirt outdoors but too cold for shorts Around 15°C (59°F): a bit chilly; may feel warmer in spring but below this temperature it's probably getting a bit too cold for t-shirts Below 10°C (50°F): cold; you should wear a jacket and with a bit of wind it can get uncomfortable Around 0°C (30°F): freezing point; risk of black ice and there might be snow, so you'll need proper footwear Below -10°C (14°F): very cold; you probably want to invest in proper winter clothing because those jeans might get a bit chilly Below -20°C (-4°F): extremely cold; it doesn't get this cold normally so you're probably not equipped to handle this, time to bring out that winter gear you bought for your last skiing vacation Note that this is aligned with the metric scale because that's what I've grown up with and hence what I've tied my intuitions to. If you looked at the Fahrenheit temperatures in isolation they would seem completely arbitrary so it's not surprising the inverse is true (e.g. 80°F is 26.7°C -- and this also settles the "more increments" argument as Celsius temperatures are usually given with a decimal and rounded in casual conversation).

jmholla 6y ago
> Note that this is aligned with the metric scale because that's what I've grown up with and hence what I've tied my intuitions to. That's a bit unfair. You're coming from Celsius. If someone we're coming from Farenheit, they could round your scale to the nearest tens then complain how Celsius's fractions are so arbitrary for these cutoffs. (Not including your boiling water references since this is about weather.)

u801e 6y ago

> Many of us just prefer the customary units for many everyday uses for various reasons. The switch wasn't effective because there wasn't a concerted effort to to make people switch by the government. They could have easily made it such that weather reports use Celsius in addition to Fahrenheit, speedometers in cars display speed in kilometers per hour by default, etc. Right now, we have a mix because certain products started using metric on their own (e.g., soft drinks with their 2 liter bottles, car manufacturers using liters to measure engine displacement instead of cubic inches, etc.).

bhupy 6y ago

For a variety of reasons, I prefer Fahrenheit over Celsius for everyday temperatures. But, genuine question, what could possibly be the advantage to using a base 12 unit for measuring distance?

User23 6y ago
Taking a third or sixth without a repeating decimal. I believe the ancient Mayans used base 60 for similar reasons. Edit: I misremembered. It was the Babylonians that used base 60.
- bhupy 6y ago
  In what contexts is taking 1/3 or 1/6 a common pattern?