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I get downvoted everytime I say this, but if someone wants to make a difference: 1. Don’t eat meat. 2. Don’t get in airplanes. 3. Don’t drive a car. 4. Live

I get downvoted everytime I say this, but if someone wants to make a difference: 1. Don’t eat meat. 2. Don’t get in airplanes. 3. Don’t drive a car. 4. Live in as small a house/apartment as you can. 5. Don’t have kids. It turns out that when people ask, “But what can I do?” What they really mean is “What can I do that won’t really inconvenience me that much?”

iujjkfjdkkdkf 6y ago
I realize you're trolling, but there is a positive way to approach this, by looking at what we can do to allow us to maintain quality of living in a sustainable way. Cowering in the dark might be one answer, but why would you want to live that way. Let's invest our energy in understanding how we can do the things that make life worth living, while ensuring that future generations can as well.
- paulcole 6y ago
  I’m not trolling at all. This is how I live. If you think a big house, a car, kids, flying for vacation, and a steak are what make life worth living, well then enjoy the end of the ride.
samatman 6y ago
So there are two problems with this. One is that you're advocating for a hair-shirt, masochistic lifestyle stripped of all joy. I have no objection to you choosing a vow of poverty, and to pass on children, but don't try and sell it as inconvenience, what you're asking for is basically religious orders. The second problem is, all you've done is reduced demand for those goods you've chosen not to consume. That makes them cheaper, so other people can afford more of them. Congratulations, you've done... nothing! But you get to feel good (?) about it? Don't get me wrong, being a childless vegan with a bike and a tiny apartment can be a satisfying lifestyle, but doesn't it undermine the feeling of self-righteousness a little bit to know that all you've done is make it so one more suburban family with four kids can have tri-tip for dinner and fly to Cancun on holiday?
- paulcole 6y ago
  > a hair-shirt, masochistic lifestyle stripped of all joy > a vow of poverty I’ll assure you I spend a lot of money on stupid shit I don’t need and I hate my life but it’s not because of these decisions. I thank my chronic illness for that! Will just ignore the supply and demand argument. So few people live the way I do that it’s clearly not influencing the price of flights or suburban living. Good try though. That’s a new argument I haven’t heard before. Anyway, enjoy the rest of the ride! Going to be a wild century or so. If you have kids, I hope they have fun.
adrianN 6y ago
What you're proposing is of course good and mostly matches my lifestyle, but it's not a solution. If everybody did everything you say we could probably cut down our CO2 emissions by 70% or so. What do we do about the remaining 30%, except wait until the no-child policy eradicates humanity? We still need to get rid of all fossil fuels. Luckily we already have the technology to do so, and by building that out we can keep most of our lifestyle with far less emissions.
hnick 6y ago
The Tragedy of the Commons is a rebuttal to this.
- paulcole 6y ago
  What do you think people should do?
  - hnick 6y ago
    It doesn't matter if someone uses resources responsibly if someone else comes along and then uses up what's left. People defer power to higher levels - government, companies, religion, culture, education, etc. Real change involves people but will have to be driven by one of these if you want entire populations of people to go along. Climate change is unfortunate since it means getting many countries working together, and some may see a benefit in doing nothing. As to what people can do? I'm not sure there is an answer. A technological solution would be great but isn't assured, voting is a problem in that you already need a lot of people thinking the same way, and leading a good lifestyle will assuage personal guilt but move the needle very little, so I think it's worthwhile but not a solution. I am not sure it will make a difference as you say when others will step in and consume what you left on the table. My opinion is that nothing meaningful will happen until we see some obvious signs of distress and even then we'll be lucky if people scramble for a solution. We are starting to see problematic weather patterns, reef bleaching, and other evidence but since the problem is statistical in nature we always get people who say such events are not necessarily an indicator of a problem. Broader scientific literacy in the community to understand the fundamentals involved would take a generation and would have to be led from the top down meaning we get back to the same issue of bringing an entire country on board. So I don't have an answer, but I don't think someone always needs an answer to point out something isn't working. Regulation would work within a country, but you need to get leadership on board and this is a global problem meaning one country isn't enough. The solution will have to align with selfish interests whether economic or actual survival. My hopes are on cheap green energy and maybe one of the cleaner variants of nuclear but that is more of a faith-based answer than anything. I hope it'll work out but don't know enough to be sure.
barryhoodlum 6y ago
The world doesn't work in this "bottom up" way. It's top down.
- paulcole 6y ago
  What do you think people should do?

iujjkfjdkkdkf 6y ago

I realize you're trolling, but there is a positive way to approach this, by looking at what we can do to allow us to maintain quality of living in a sustainable way. Cowering in the dark might be one answer, but why would you want to live that way. Let's invest our energy in understanding how we can do the things that make life worth living, while ensuring that future generations can as well.

paulcole 6y ago
I’m not trolling at all. This is how I live. If you think a big house, a car, kids, flying for vacation, and a steak are what make life worth living, well then enjoy the end of the ride.

samatman 6y ago

So there are two problems with this. One is that you're advocating for a hair-shirt, masochistic lifestyle stripped of all joy. I have no objection to you choosing a vow of poverty, and to pass on children, but don't try and sell it as inconvenience, what you're asking for is basically religious orders. The second problem is, all you've done is reduced demand for those goods you've chosen not to consume. That makes them cheaper, so other people can afford more of them. Congratulations, you've done... nothing! But you get to feel good (?) about it? Don't get me wrong, being a childless vegan with a bike and a tiny apartment can be a satisfying lifestyle, but doesn't it undermine the feeling of self-righteousness a little bit to know that all you've done is make it so one more suburban family with four kids can have tri-tip for dinner and fly to Cancun on holiday?

paulcole 6y ago
> a hair-shirt, masochistic lifestyle stripped of all joy > a vow of poverty I’ll assure you I spend a lot of money on stupid shit I don’t need and I hate my life but it’s not because of these decisions. I thank my chronic illness for that! Will just ignore the supply and demand argument. So few people live the way I do that it’s clearly not influencing the price of flights or suburban living. Good try though. That’s a new argument I haven’t heard before. Anyway, enjoy the rest of the ride! Going to be a wild century or so. If you have kids, I hope they have fun.

adrianN 6y ago

What you're proposing is of course good and mostly matches my lifestyle, but it's not a solution. If everybody did everything you say we could probably cut down our CO2 emissions by 70% or so. What do we do about the remaining 30%, except wait until the no-child policy eradicates humanity? We still need to get rid of all fossil fuels. Luckily we already have the technology to do so, and by building that out we can keep most of our lifestyle with far less emissions.

hnick 6y ago

The Tragedy of the Commons is a rebuttal to this.

paulcole 6y ago
What do you think people should do?
- hnick 6y ago
  It doesn't matter if someone uses resources responsibly if someone else comes along and then uses up what's left. People defer power to higher levels - government, companies, religion, culture, education, etc. Real change involves people but will have to be driven by one of these if you want entire populations of people to go along. Climate change is unfortunate since it means getting many countries working together, and some may see a benefit in doing nothing. As to what people can do? I'm not sure there is an answer. A technological solution would be great but isn't assured, voting is a problem in that you already need a lot of people thinking the same way, and leading a good lifestyle will assuage personal guilt but move the needle very little, so I think it's worthwhile but not a solution. I am not sure it will make a difference as you say when others will step in and consume what you left on the table. My opinion is that nothing meaningful will happen until we see some obvious signs of distress and even then we'll be lucky if people scramble for a solution. We are starting to see problematic weather patterns, reef bleaching, and other evidence but since the problem is statistical in nature we always get people who say such events are not necessarily an indicator of a problem. Broader scientific literacy in the community to understand the fundamentals involved would take a generation and would have to be led from the top down meaning we get back to the same issue of bringing an entire country on board. So I don't have an answer, but I don't think someone always needs an answer to point out something isn't working. Regulation would work within a country, but you need to get leadership on board and this is a global problem meaning one country isn't enough. The solution will have to align with selfish interests whether economic or actual survival. My hopes are on cheap green energy and maybe one of the cleaner variants of nuclear but that is more of a faith-based answer than anything. I hope it'll work out but don't know enough to be sure.

barryhoodlum 6y ago

The world doesn't work in this "bottom up" way. It's top down.

paulcole 6y ago
What do you think people should do?