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How much Polish is there in Yiddish and how much Yiddish is there in Polish?
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y agoIt is interesting to me. I think the first time I stumbled upon this when I realized that Martin Indyk is not automatically a Polish last name ( despite Martin's family having immigrated from Poland ). Indik is very much Yiddish. And when you think of it, it should not be a surprise, Poland used to have a vibrant Jewish community before the war.
- pram 6y agoPre-20th century Poland and the Jewish “Pale of Settlement” were essentially the same area.
- bodhiandphysics 6y agoThere was no pre 20th century Poland! The pale is the same as the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth (mostly), minus Habsburg Galicia and the Prussian part of Poland. The nobility of the polish Lithuanian commonwealth were mostly polish or German speaking (and thus there is very little lithuanian or Belarusian in Yiddish even though a huge number of Jews lived in the Lithuanian part of the commonwealth)
- Tade0 6y agoOf course there was. The commonwealth was established in 1385, while Poland as a state came into existence effectively in 966, when Mieszko I adopted Christianity.
- lokl 6y agoThis is false. "Pale of Settlement" refers to part of the Russian Empire and, while some of what is today Poland was then controlled by the Russian Empire, other parts of Poland were under Prussian or Austrian control (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitions_of_Poland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitions_of_Poland).
- pram 6y agoThe Pale and the Partition are contemporaneous. How is it false? lol
- V-2 6y ago"Indyk" is Polish for turkey.
- joshuaissac 6y agoMany languages have similar words for the bird, including Turkish itself, where it is known as 'hindi'. 1. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/culture/thanksgiving-turkey-bird-with-confused-origin/1657735 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/culture/thanksgiving-turkey-bird-wi...
- claudiawerner 6y agoAdam Rasugea's video "Why the turkey is named after Turkey (and India)" is extremely informative and fun on the etymology of 'turkey' as applied to the bird: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2XZiREio4I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2XZiREio4I
- compsciphd 6y agoin hebrew a chicken is a tar-ne-gol. A turkey is a tar-ne-gol ho-du (almost literally an indian chicken).
- rimliu 6y agoAnd similar in Russian "Индюк". It even funnier in my language (Lithuanian): "kalakutas", so named not after India, but its city, Kolkata.
- V-2 6y agoFor what it's worth, "kalakutas" happens to sound (mildly) obscene in Polish, since "kutas" means a dong/dick :)
- bushbaba 6y ago50% of Minsk and other major Belarus cities were Jewish pre ww2. 90% of that Jewish population was killed. Property and belongings still haven’t been returned to the Jewish families it was taken from. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Belarus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Belarus
- TedDoesntTalk 6y ago> still haven’t been returned I’m willing to bet that, at this point, they never will be.
- vlovich123 6y agoAs a Jew from Belarus, I don’t feel bad about it. I generally feel trying to correct such large scale injustices is an ineffective way to heal and move past things. We all get born into random circumstances.
- dotancohen 6y ago> As a Jew from Belarus, I don’t feel bad about it. I > generally feel trying to correct such large scale injustices > is an ineffective way to heal and move past things. We all > get born into random circumstances. Then what are the effective ways to heal and move past things? Or to help others heal and move past things? Despite Jews moving past things, there exists a large population today who wasn't taught by their grandparents to move on, but rather to demand restitution for perceived injustices of the 1940's. Are their claims invalidated because your family healed and moved past things? We was your family able to heal and move past things when they cannot?
- vlovich123 6y agoMy family was lucky & took advantage of opportunities to escape to the West in '91. In terms of healing, just time. Focusing on the future, building a family, improving ones own situation etc. Belarus is a distant memory for my family. My dad's passing is a more memorable & traumatic event in my life than any systemic injustices my family faced. That being said, I don't claim to speak for all Jews & telling people to "get over it" would be tone deaf. I can only try to present my own life experiences, limited as they are. Open to hearing others of course.
- TedDoesntTalk 6y ago> Martin Indyk Had to lookup this person; never heard of him before
- watwut 6y ago10% of Poland citizens were Jewish. Not it is like half a percent or something like that. Interestingly, only around 3% of German citizens were Jewish. Holocaust is mostly eastern Europwan Jews, because Germany did not had that many of them.
- idownvoted 6y agoI cannot but note how the author (who lives in Berlin, studying a Germanic language) denotes for some reason the „German component“ in Yiddish to the vocabulary. That’s a bit strange because, well, the vocabulary only makes for one part of a language. It completely leaves out things like phonetics or most importantly grammar. If Yiddish isn’t written in Hebrew letters most Germans can read it. And hearing Yiddish (if you still can) is usually closer to modern high German attuned ears than say Suisse German. What also feels construed is the part about the diminutives: The Yiddish Hershele example is exactly how people form diminutives in south west Germany till this day, exactly the area where Yiddish originated. Yiddish diminutives are such a direct pointer towards their German origin, that most non-southwest Germans that don’t use these diminutives would read the Yiddish ones and think a Swabian/Hessian/Palatine/Badisn wrote them. The same holds true with regards the „Yiddish Slavic syntax“: Unlike what the author claims multiple negation is still used in south west Germany (where Yiddish comes from) as well as Bavaria. It’s either intent (bad, but normal as the field of linguistics is often highly politicized - is it a coincidence that Chomsky studied this?) or just lack of looking at the „German component“ because it is less exciting than exploring the „Polish component“ (understandable).
- blisterpeanuts 6y agoI've heard it said before that Yiddish sounds like Bavarian. Are you a native German speaker? If you hear spoken Yiddish, can you identify it as such, or does it just sound like some weird Bavarian dialect?
- canjobear 6y agoI’ve only heard Yiddish in movies and TV. To my ears, it does have a Bavarian flavor, but also lots of surprising stuff that you wouldn’t have in Bavarian. For example the vowel that would be long /o:/ in most German dialects comes out in Yiddish as /oi/.
- Hublium 6y agoI'm being a bit of a smartass here, but in some areas of Upper Austria (part of the Bavarian language area), the MHG long "o" is pronounced as "oi". https://media04.meinbezirk.at/article/2013/01/14/7/5943487_XXL.jpg?1561467254 https://media04.meinbezirk.at/article/2013/01/14/7/5943487_X...
- blisterpeanuts 6y agoGoogle Translate does Yiddish, which is very cool. However, it seems very picky about what type of spelling it will accept. It simply doesn't translate whole phrases from the article if it doesn't have the particular variation. For example, "nisht" (not) is sometimes Romanized as "nicht". Google understands the latter, but not the former. I don't know enough Yiddish to say what system of standards Google Translate is based on, but it perhaps needs to be expanded a bit to accommodate different spellings. However, when I use the Yiddish characters, e.g. "נישט" for "nisht", Google Translate gets it right. Aside from all that, it's safe to say that American English has inherited quite a few more Yiddish words than has Polish.
- bodhiandphysics 6y agoShockingly few given that 10% of the population was Jewish!
- randomreplies 6y ago10%? 2.4% in america[1] today, 0.2% world pop [2] numbers from wikipedia [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews
- gkop 6y agoI think parent comment was referring to Polish.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- golemiprague 6y agoInteresting that the adopted words from Yidish to Polish are mostly Hebrew based rather than German based. Maybe German words in the Polish language are just considered coming from German rather than from Yidish.
- Zhenya 6y agoTl;dr bisele!
- andyxor 6y agoAh zochn vey
- ajuc 6y agoRegarding the -eł postfix used in Polish doge meme (pieseł) - it's not obvious to everybody in Poland, but most young people know it's "Jewish-like". It was formed as a variant of mamełe/tatełe. It was a funny way to refer to your parents popular on some social media in Poland, and these ones are universally recognized as Yiddish influence. It comes not from meeting Yiddish speakers (because there are effectively 0% chance of meeting one in Poland), but from people trying to make word jokes basing on media and Jewish humor.
- chewz 6y agoPieseł had been first used and popularized by Michnikowski in cabaret first in 60-ties. At the time there was still enough people in Poland who were either speaking Yiddish or familiar with the language from before the war. Like my father who spoke good German but also had daily contact with Yiddish on the street [4] before the WW2 as a (Polish) kid in Wola. This type of pieseł jokes and many other Michnikowski performances had its public in Warsaw at the time.[1] [3] Szmonces [1] [1] https://sztetl.org.pl/en/tradycja-i-kultura-zydowska/tradycja-i-kuchnia/szmonces-dowcip-zydowski https://sztetl.org.pl/en/tradycja-i-kultura-zydowska/tradycj... [3] https://youtu.be/wucOMe1w7s8 https://youtu.be/wucOMe1w7s8 [4] My father had been 10 years old in 1939. In Wola - workers district (read poor) Jews and Polish lived together mixed and only Kiercelak (large open air market with many Jewish merchants and tradesmen) separated Wola from Nalewki (nominaly Jewish district). It is all walking distance especially for 10 years old so you have heard Yiddish (and Yiddish mixed with Polish) every day.
- ablekh 6y agoPerhaps, people interested in the subject (and in music!) will enjoy creative work and talent of Olga Avigail Mieleszczuk - a singer, accordion player and researcher of Eastern European musical folklore (especially Yiddish and Polish): http://www.olgamieleszczuk.com.pl http://www.olgamieleszczuk.com.pl. Also see her YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Olginiam https://www.youtube.com/user/Olginiam. Though, some of her performances can be found outside of that channel, e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpA524dufFk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpA524dufFk and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsarcWZAB98 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsarcWZAB98.
- kgeist 6y agoRussian criminal slang is full of Yiddish words: ksiva, frajer etc.
- chewz 6y agoThese particular words and more are still used in Polish - ksywa, frajer - not just in slang. However they drop out of use nowadays...
- aakkaarr 6y agoReminds me about the Czech song "szukam cię Miłoszu z Warszawy" where the pal is called "frajer" too, so Czech people use it too
- andrewshadura 6y agoIn Czech and Slovak frajer/frajerka are normally used to mean boyfriend/girlfriend (unlike e.g. in Russian).
- hanslub42 6y agoI wonder how big the influence of Yiddish has been on German itself. Given the closeness of Yiddish and German, it would be the words of Hebrew origin that would stand out. Dutch has quite a number of Yiddish loan-words, many of them in (very) common use. Almost all of them have Hebrew roots (see https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiddisch#Jiddische_invloeden_in_het_Nederlands https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiddisch#Jiddische_invloeden_i...)
- w-m 6y agoWikipedia has a list for German loan words from Yiddish as well: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_deutscher_W%C3%B6rter_aus_dem_Hebr%C3%A4ischen_und_Jiddischen https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_deutscher_W%C3%B6rter_au... There seems to be a large overlap with the Dutch list, and they are also very commonly used. I don’t think many people (me included) would realize for a large part of the list, that they have Yiddish/Hebrew origin.
- MarcusE1W 6y agoIn the german town of Münster exists a local dialect called Masematte, historically only spoken in some of the towns districts and with a influence from Yiddish. Some words are still very common and in use. E.g jovel for good, great, pretty I can’t find a English description, here is a German one: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masematte https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masematte