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There’s still a large difference between upper-middle class and upper class. I think many middle class jobs can support owning a Tesla Model 3 or other mid-rang

There’s still a large difference between upper-middle class and upper class. I think many middle class jobs can support owning a Tesla Model 3 or other mid-range new car but not a Porsche. When I hear “expensive toy for the rich”, I think of a millionaire’s 3rd lambo, not Bill’s Silverado lease. Initial Teslas were sports cars, and now it’s squarely in middle class territory. Still a big improvement and a big market, and in several years, that leads to a good second-hand market and even cheaper EVs. I think for many (not all, of course) people the problem is not price as much as practicality. I could probably be convinced to spend more for an EV, but without chargers in most apartment buildings and with limited charging networks where I might go, it’s not justifiable yet.

xyzzy21 6y ago
Not when I can buy an ICE and operate for cheaper - note the nearest "charge station" to me is 30+ miles away and then the next nearest is 100+ miles beyond that. The drop in diesel and gasoline prices recently only cements the value of an ICE vehicle.
- turtlebits 6y ago
  Unless you drive a lot, you can charge at home? It costs me about $6.00 to charge my 60kwh EV, which has a range of 238 miles.
  - toast0 6y ago
    It's been a while since I rented a place to live, but charging infrastructure for rentals is a big issue. You can't buy an EV if you can't charge at home. And you won't buy an EV if you can charge at home if you're not sure you can charge it if you move. (Not to mention if you think you might move to another state, not being able to drive your car there is a question mark)
- noahtallen 6y ago
  That’s why I mention practicality! I think yes, for people who strictly buy the cheapest car that’s not bad, it will be some time before EVs are viable. But many people, including myself, think that EVs are better in general. If I was comparing a $15k car to a $20k car, I could be convinced to spend more on an EV if I was just comparing the vehicles themselves in an ideal environment. But that decision doesn’t make sense until the “practicality” problem is solved.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  Thats not how people buy cars. People buy BMW but they are not the most cost-efficient cars. People buy cars in London , using public transport is cheaper. Cars are prestiege, a point of pride, 'Freedom', an obsession, a place to have sex, and more to all kinds of people.
iagovar 6y ago
> I think many middle class jobs can support owning a Tesla Model 3 In a handful of countries.
- noahtallen 6y ago
  I can’t disagree with that. I feel like the EV conversation is centered on “richer” countries anyways because of infrastructure and tech. I’d be curious to learn how EVs are being approached in countries which are still developing infrastructure
  - lanstin 6y ago
    They have electric tuk-tuks already. I think batteries / electric motor are inherently simpler to operate, if not fabricate, than ICE so likely to be cheaper at the mass scale. Even solar + batteries + electric motor. And they scale up and down - you can tiny electric things and giant electric things.
  - baybal2 6y ago
    > I feel like the EV conversation is centered on “richer” countries anyways because of infrastructure and tech. I'd say EV are making inroads there exactly because of no infrastructure, and tech. In Vietnam, people choose electric scooters over petrol largely because their maintainance free nature, and no need for fluids, or waiting at petrol pumps. People like that they don't risk expensive, and lengthy breadown of their scooter when their job depend on it.

xyzzy21 6y ago

Not when I can buy an ICE and operate for cheaper - note the nearest "charge station" to me is 30+ miles away and then the next nearest is 100+ miles beyond that. The drop in diesel and gasoline prices recently only cements the value of an ICE vehicle.

turtlebits 6y ago
Unless you drive a lot, you can charge at home? It costs me about $6.00 to charge my 60kwh EV, which has a range of 238 miles.
- toast0 6y ago
  It's been a while since I rented a place to live, but charging infrastructure for rentals is a big issue. You can't buy an EV if you can't charge at home. And you won't buy an EV if you can charge at home if you're not sure you can charge it if you move. (Not to mention if you think you might move to another state, not being able to drive your car there is a question mark)
noahtallen 6y ago
That’s why I mention practicality! I think yes, for people who strictly buy the cheapest car that’s not bad, it will be some time before EVs are viable. But many people, including myself, think that EVs are better in general. If I was comparing a $15k car to a $20k car, I could be convinced to spend more on an EV if I was just comparing the vehicles themselves in an ideal environment. But that decision doesn’t make sense until the “practicality” problem is solved.
ClumsyPilot 6y ago
Thats not how people buy cars. People buy BMW but they are not the most cost-efficient cars. People buy cars in London , using public transport is cheaper. Cars are prestiege, a point of pride, 'Freedom', an obsession, a place to have sex, and more to all kinds of people.

iagovar 6y ago

> I think many middle class jobs can support owning a Tesla Model 3 In a handful of countries.

noahtallen 6y ago
I can’t disagree with that. I feel like the EV conversation is centered on “richer” countries anyways because of infrastructure and tech. I’d be curious to learn how EVs are being approached in countries which are still developing infrastructure
- lanstin 6y ago
  They have electric tuk-tuks already. I think batteries / electric motor are inherently simpler to operate, if not fabricate, than ICE so likely to be cheaper at the mass scale. Even solar + batteries + electric motor. And they scale up and down - you can tiny electric things and giant electric things.
- baybal2 6y ago
  > I feel like the EV conversation is centered on “richer” countries anyways because of infrastructure and tech. I'd say EV are making inroads there exactly because of no infrastructure, and tech. In Vietnam, people choose electric scooters over petrol largely because their maintainance free nature, and no need for fluids, or waiting at petrol pumps. People like that they don't risk expensive, and lengthy breadown of their scooter when their job depend on it.