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> When the hoster receives an official request from the US to remove copyrighted materials – a DMCA takedown notice – the men do nothing about it, says a person
by fallingknife 6y ago
> When the hoster receives an official request from the US to remove copyrighted materials – a DMCA takedown notice – the men do nothing about it, says a person who saw it happen. „DMCAs are just tossed in the wastepaper basket.” Subletters even advertise this ‘service’. „DMCA ignored” reads one advertisement offering space in the „state of the art Ecatel DataCenter, located in Amsterdam”.
The Dutch hosting company doesn't obey US law. My god! Can you believe these assholes? Running a hosting company that just hosts, and doesn't snoop into what their customers are doing? And how dare they make enforcement agencies actually go through the required legal processes to enforce the law!
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- vonwoodson 6y agoCopyright laws are international. If you think WIPO won’t enforce a DMCA claim because “American laws don’t apply outside of the US” (Bwahahahaha! Ha hahah! gasp HAHAH!! Ha! Ha! Ahh heh heh heh... oh, my...) you’re kidding yourself. https://www.wipo.int/ https://www.wipo.int/
- zabzonk 6y agoWIPO don't "enforce" anything - they are not like agents of SHIELD. Worked for WIPO as a consultant back in the 90s.
- toast0 6y agoYou can't enforce a DMCA claim against an entity without ties to the US. You can enforce a copyright claim against an entity in a jurisdiction that respects copyright, but you're going to need to use that jurisdiction's procedures. I'm sure these companies don't throwout local court summons, but a lot of copyright holders (or their agents) send out DMCA claims and don't follow through beyond that.
- dragonwriter 6y ago> You can't enforce a DMCA claim against an entity without ties to the US a “DMCA claim" isn’t really the issue, the DMCA safe harbor (takedowns aren’t a basis for claims, but for safe harbor from claims against the provider) doesn’t apply outside of US law. To the extent another jurisdiction has provider liability, following US DMCA takedown rules won't protect you from it.
- throwawayfire 6y ago> You can't enforce a DMCA claim against an entity without ties to the US. This is less obvious than it might appear - the US has pushed to include DMCA-equivalent claims in international trade deals. E.g. The proposed UK-US Free Trade Agreement explicitly includes negotiation around intellectual property rights: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/Summary_of_U.S.-UK_Negotiating_Objectives.pdf https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/Summary_of_U.S.-UK_Nego...
- PeterisP 6y agoThe core copyright laws e.g. the Berne convention are international and pretty much universally accepted, however, DMCA goes way beyond that, and several key provisions of DMCA - including the specific takedown process and the prohibition on distributing DRM-circumvention tools - is USA-specific law that does not have an equivalent in many other jurisdictions.
- dang 6y agoPlease don't do that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- aww_dang 6y agoMany of the robo-DMCA-claim firms simply search for the string of a movie title. If the page in question is determined by their poorly written software to include the content, a DMCA takedown request is spammed. No human confirmation is involved. One wonders who the abusers and spammers are in this situation. Of course some will claim that provisions exist for damages to be claimed in the event of false takedowns, but it is hard if not impossible to collect. Typically you need to provide all of your personal data to respond.
- Grollicus 6y agoI wish people would find a way to monetize obviously false DMCA requests. I know of some people who basically finance their niche bulletin boards via police requests - they get something in the range of 2-3 digits (€) for a information request. Get a few of these a year and your hosting costs are paid. There's not a lot of money to be made but if it's your hobby anyways..
- inter_netuser 6y agoThey get paid by the police? Is there a pricelist somewhere for these police requests?
- sandworm101 6y ago18 U.S. Code CHAPTER 121—STORED WIRE AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS AND TRANSACTIONAL RECORDS ACCESS https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2706 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2706 "...this title shall pay to the person or entity assembling or providing such information a fee for reimbursement for such costs as are reasonably necessary and which have been directly incurred in searching for, assembling, reproducing, or otherwise providing such information." Not your lawyer. Just providing a link to an example law describing how some ISPs can profit from data requests.
- aww_dang 6y agoBulletproof hosting providers are indirectly monetizing false DMCA requests.
- iudqnolq 6y agoI don't care morally about the DMCA, but you're a dick if you pull pranks on your child pornography reporting form > For reasons that are unclear, the web form that the two men drew up for reporting gruesome images is designed in such a way that the system can only handle five reports an hour. That is unworkable, according to the hotline.
- vimax 6y agoI might care more once laws start protecting children from those in power more than used by those in power as a ploy to dismantle privacy from ordinary people.
- JeremyBanks 6y agoHave you seen the news about the child predator congressman facing imminent indictment?
- inetknght 6y ago"Imminent indictment" isn't an indictment. It's just a tabloid headline.
- JeremyBanks 6y agoIf there were only one source, I'd agree with you. But we've had an avalanche of distinct sources coming forward on this story. It seems highly likely that charges are coming very soon. If you watch Fox, you might have missed it, since he was a recurring contributor to their network (fitting, given how many sexual predators they've employed) and they've been trying to downplay it. But feel free to bury your hand in the sand.
- akudha 6y agoHave you seen the news about a certain member of a royal family facing no consequences whatsoever for his similar activities?
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- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago>Dutch law states that a hosting company cannot be prosecuted for the actions of those who hire its servers. It is impossible for a hosting company to know the content of every byte on those servers. But hosting companies are required to take action if they are informed of the presence of illegal content. The question is how quickly and how actively they do so. Chucking a DMCA in the trash sounds like it's against Dutch law
- tyingq 6y agoI don't think a DMCA constitutes "presence of illegal content". It constitutes presence of "content with a US copyright, maybe".
- shagie 6y agoCopyright isn't a US thing - its an international thing. One doesn't have to register their copyright in every country to publish a picture (for that matter, they don't even need to register the copyright to have it be protected).
- tyingq 6y agoI didn't even go down that road. There's nothing compelling a Dutch company to comply with the DMCA. The context of "illegal" that was quoted a few comments up isn't "DMCA", it's "illegal". Like, against Dutch law. Child phonography might be a good example. On that matter though, here's what copyright.gov has to say: "There is no such thing as an “international copyright” that will automatically protect an author’s writings throughout the world. Protection against unauthorized use in a particular country depends on the national laws of that country." https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ38a.pdf https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ38a.pdf
- RuggedPineapple 6y agoThere is such a thing, actually. Not explicitly, but international copyright law has been largely harmonized through the Berne Convention. With 179 signatories its a pretty universal 'floor' for copyright protections. The only big abstention was the USSR and they aren't around anymore. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention
- rangibaby 6y ago> The Dutch hosting company doesn't obey US law. My god! Can you believe these assholes? Running a hosting company that just hosts, and doesn't snoop into what their customers are doing? And how dare they make enforcement agencies actually go through the required legal processes to enforce the law! That reminds me a lot of the saga of Kim Dotcom
- anigbrowl 6y agoMany jurisdictions interoperate on the basis of reciprocity. You can discuss this without sarcasm and hyperbole.