7 ms·

> Average US household .. 29kWh/day > houses in the UK .. 3kWh/day Seems believable from what I've heard.

by labawi 6y ago

turbinerneiter 6y ago
I think in the US it's common to heat and cool badly insulated houses with electricity, whereas in europe almost nobody cools, heat comes from other sources and insulation is taking way more seriously, especially for anything built recently. The best way to reduce your energy bill (whichever source) is to live in the right climate zone I guess.
- ghaff 6y ago
  Electric heat isn't super common, especially in standalone houses, in areas where you need a lot of heat in the US. I don't know the numbers off the top of my head but electricity costs a lot more than gas or oil. You're right about the AC but I still use 20 kWh even with no AC (and no electric heat).
  - turbinerneiter 6y ago
    Thanks for the insight. I vaguely remembered that people run the ac in reverse for heat, but that is probably only in paces that almost need no heating. Do you know why you use that much? Do you heat your water with electricity? Fridge, freezer, tv, WiFi, Desktop PC, charging phones and laptop, ligths.
    - ncallaway 6y ago
      - AC is a very common consumer of large amounts of electricity (depending on the region, many regions will have almost no AC while other regions will have it in every building running almost constantly) - Electrical heat is not the most common form of heating, but it's been growing a lot and is also a big consumer when it is used - Laundry Washer/Dryer are pretty large consumers (mostly the dryer) - Water heaters are often electrical - Electrical ovens and stove ranges are pretty common, which can pull quite a bit depending on how much use they receive - Microwaves pull a bit, but not huge
      - ghaff 6y ago
        AC is a big one. Where I live in New England, we usually have a couple spells where I really need to turn on my office window unit for a week or so. Those months can drive my electricity consumption up by 200 kWH or more for the month--and that's just one small window unit run intermittently during the day to cool one small room.
      - nicoburns 6y ago
        (electric tumble) dryers are an interesting point. They're getting more common, but most people I know in the UK either don't have one, or have one but don't use it for normal washes (they use a washing line or a clothes horse).
    - ghaff 6y ago
      Not really. My electricity usage is considered normal so I've never really looked into it. Additional freezer, washer & dryer, oven (I have a propane range but many do not), microwave, there's some additional water heating in the dishwasher as well as for drying, TVs, other electronics like printer stereo etc., furnace/water heater are oil but still have pumps etc.
      - turbinerneiter 6y ago
        That's fascinating as it's not really that different from myself. I'm alone in a flat tough, I guess you are a family?
        ghaff 6y ago
        Nope. 1800 sqft house. re: the freezers, I just like to cook a lot.
    - bcrosby95 6y ago
      AC is extremely efficient for what it's doing, but it only works because the temperature difference is relatively minor. Where they can get away with it, they use something similar to AC for heating in the US. But it doesn't work everywhere for heating. Consider that even in the hottest climates in the US, you're cooling your air by 30 degrees. But in the coolest climates, you're heating your air by 60 degrees. My sister has this system in Philadelphia, but when it gets cold enough the more inefficient raw electric heating kicks in, and that really chews through electricity like no other.
    - TheCoelacanth 6y ago
      "AC in reverse" I'm assuming means a heat pump, which is very common in the US except for the parts that get really cold like the Northeast and Midwest. They are very efficient down to a bit below freezing, but will result in higher electricity usage since you are using electricity instead of a different fuel.
  - nicoburns 6y ago
    Do you have any idea what that is going on? Just really inefficient appliances?
    - ghaff 6y ago
      I don't think anything is "going on" given that my consumption is about average for my area. I do have 3 fridges which are all pretty old at this point which is certainly some ongoing load. I also have at least the usual number of electronic devices consuming at least standby loads. Then there are the usual intermittent things like electric dryer, dishwasher, etc.
benjohnson 6y ago
The 3kWh figure for UK is just electricity - add 12kWH for heating energy from gas to get a more reasonable number given that people in the UK generally don't live in shacks. https://www.theenergyshop.com/guides/average-gas-and-electricity-usage https://www.theenergyshop.com/guides/average-gas-and-electri...
- ghaff 6y ago
  Yes, although the 30 kWh US figure doesn't include a lot of gas/oil heat in the North/mountains either. (It does include a lot of AC but average electricity consumption is still a lot higher apparently in the US even taking that into account. I assume bigger houses is one reason.)
abdullahkhalids 6y ago
1 KWh/day for Fridge. Lights should do less than 0.5KWh/day. Washing machine is maybe 0.3KWh/day. Maybe, other electronics might add up to 1-2KWh/day. Cooling is not required most of the year. Maybe fans for a couple of months. Heating is separate (EDIT: UK figure), as others have noted. What else are you using electricity on?
- ncallaway 6y ago
  > Heating is separate, as others have noted. Heating isn't separate for me. For me, cooling isn't required most of the year (probably similar to UK weather), but for many parts of the US cooling is required almost year-round.
- kragen 6y ago
  Heating, which can easily be 5 kW, 120 kWh/day; many US houses are heated electrically, so it's not always separate. Air conditioning can easily be 3 kW, or 72 kWh/day, although it's usually only on during the daytime, so figure 30 kWh/day; it's common to run a 240 VAC circuit in the US for the air conditioner because the 2.4 kW of a standard 120 VAC 20 A circuit is insufficient. Incandescent lights could easily be 1 kW (which you get to offset against the heating part of the year), which is another 24 kWh/day. A household stove is usually about 4 kW if you're cooking on two burners, but you're probably only cooking about 2 hours a day, so that's 8 kWh/day if you cook at home. (Some people cook with other fuels, but others use electric stoves.) Hot water heaters are also a few hundred watts, I think; an on-demand tankless hot-water heater is on the order of 3 kW, but in the US hot-water tanks are far more common, constantly leaking heat through their fiberglass insulation. In Arizona and New Mexico, where I grew up, common inefficient houses need air conditioning during the day and heating at night much of the year. So it's easy to see how, even if cooling is not required most of the year, you could easily use 50 kWh/day of electrical energy in the kinds of huge houses people have in the US.
  - galangalalgol 6y ago
    I think AC is usually 440v around here. It is the largest consumer.

> Average US household .. 29kWh/day > houses in the UK .. 3kWh/day Seems believable from what I've heard.

by labawi 6y ago

> Average US household .. 29kWh/day > houses in the UK .. 3kWh/day Seems believable from what I've heard.

I think in the US it's common to heat and cool badly insulated houses with electricity, whereas in europe almost nobody cools, heat comes from other sources and insulation is taking way more seriously, especially for anything built recently. The best way to reduce your energy bill (whichever source) is to live in the right climate zone I guess.

ghaff 6y ago
Electric heat isn't super common, especially in standalone houses, in areas where you need a lot of heat in the US. I don't know the numbers off the top of my head but electricity costs a lot more than gas or oil. You're right about the AC but I still use 20 kWh even with no AC (and no electric heat).
- turbinerneiter 6y ago
  Thanks for the insight. I vaguely remembered that people run the ac in reverse for heat, but that is probably only in paces that almost need no heating. Do you know why you use that much? Do you heat your water with electricity? Fridge, freezer, tv, WiFi, Desktop PC, charging phones and laptop, ligths.
  - ncallaway 6y ago
    - AC is a very common consumer of large amounts of electricity (depending on the region, many regions will have almost no AC while other regions will have it in every building running almost constantly) - Electrical heat is not the most common form of heating, but it's been growing a lot and is also a big consumer when it is used - Laundry Washer/Dryer are pretty large consumers (mostly the dryer) - Water heaters are often electrical - Electrical ovens and stove ranges are pretty common, which can pull quite a bit depending on how much use they receive - Microwaves pull a bit, but not huge
    - ghaff 6y ago
      AC is a big one. Where I live in New England, we usually have a couple spells where I really need to turn on my office window unit for a week or so. Those months can drive my electricity consumption up by 200 kWH or more for the month--and that's just one small window unit run intermittently during the day to cool one small room.
    - nicoburns 6y ago
      (electric tumble) dryers are an interesting point. They're getting more common, but most people I know in the UK either don't have one, or have one but don't use it for normal washes (they use a washing line or a clothes horse).
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Not really. My electricity usage is considered normal so I've never really looked into it. Additional freezer, washer & dryer, oven (I have a propane range but many do not), microwave, there's some additional water heating in the dishwasher as well as for drying, TVs, other electronics like printer stereo etc., furnace/water heater are oil but still have pumps etc.
    - turbinerneiter 6y ago
      That's fascinating as it's not really that different from myself. I'm alone in a flat tough, I guess you are a family?
      - ghaff 6y ago
        Nope. 1800 sqft house. re: the freezers, I just like to cook a lot.
  - bcrosby95 6y ago
    AC is extremely efficient for what it's doing, but it only works because the temperature difference is relatively minor. Where they can get away with it, they use something similar to AC for heating in the US. But it doesn't work everywhere for heating. Consider that even in the hottest climates in the US, you're cooling your air by 30 degrees. But in the coolest climates, you're heating your air by 60 degrees. My sister has this system in Philadelphia, but when it gets cold enough the more inefficient raw electric heating kicks in, and that really chews through electricity like no other.
  - TheCoelacanth 6y ago
    "AC in reverse" I'm assuming means a heat pump, which is very common in the US except for the parts that get really cold like the Northeast and Midwest. They are very efficient down to a bit below freezing, but will result in higher electricity usage since you are using electricity instead of a different fuel.
- nicoburns 6y ago
  Do you have any idea what that is going on? Just really inefficient appliances?
  - ghaff 6y ago
    I don't think anything is "going on" given that my consumption is about average for my area. I do have 3 fridges which are all pretty old at this point which is certainly some ongoing load. I also have at least the usual number of electronic devices consuming at least standby loads. Then there are the usual intermittent things like electric dryer, dishwasher, etc.

benjohnson 6y ago

The 3kWh figure for UK is just electricity - add 12kWH for heating energy from gas to get a more reasonable number given that people in the UK generally don't live in shacks. https://www.theenergyshop.com/guides/average-gas-and-electricity-usage https://www.theenergyshop.com/guides/average-gas-and-electri...

ghaff 6y ago
Yes, although the 30 kWh US figure doesn't include a lot of gas/oil heat in the North/mountains either. (It does include a lot of AC but average electricity consumption is still a lot higher apparently in the US even taking that into account. I assume bigger houses is one reason.)

abdullahkhalids 6y ago

1 KWh/day for Fridge. Lights should do less than 0.5KWh/day. Washing machine is maybe 0.3KWh/day. Maybe, other electronics might add up to 1-2KWh/day. Cooling is not required most of the year. Maybe fans for a couple of months. Heating is separate (EDIT: UK figure), as others have noted. What else are you using electricity on?

ncallaway 6y ago
> Heating is separate, as others have noted. Heating isn't separate for me. For me, cooling isn't required most of the year (probably similar to UK weather), but for many parts of the US cooling is required almost year-round.
kragen 6y ago
Heating, which can easily be 5 kW, 120 kWh/day; many US houses are heated electrically, so it's not always separate. Air conditioning can easily be 3 kW, or 72 kWh/day, although it's usually only on during the daytime, so figure 30 kWh/day; it's common to run a 240 VAC circuit in the US for the air conditioner because the 2.4 kW of a standard 120 VAC 20 A circuit is insufficient. Incandescent lights could easily be 1 kW (which you get to offset against the heating part of the year), which is another 24 kWh/day. A household stove is usually about 4 kW if you're cooking on two burners, but you're probably only cooking about 2 hours a day, so that's 8 kWh/day if you cook at home. (Some people cook with other fuels, but others use electric stoves.) Hot water heaters are also a few hundred watts, I think; an on-demand tankless hot-water heater is on the order of 3 kW, but in the US hot-water tanks are far more common, constantly leaking heat through their fiberglass insulation. In Arizona and New Mexico, where I grew up, common inefficient houses need air conditioning during the day and heating at night much of the year. So it's easy to see how, even if cooling is not required most of the year, you could easily use 50 kWh/day of electrical energy in the kinds of huge houses people have in the US.
- galangalalgol 6y ago
  I think AC is usually 440v around here. It is the largest consumer.