9 ms·

40kg translates to 4-9kWh depending on the chemistry, meanwhile houses in the UK draw around 3kWh/day averaged over a year so unless a house is woefully ineffic

by Tade0 6y ago

40kg translates to 4-9kWh depending on the chemistry, meanwhile houses in the UK draw around 3kWh/day averaged over a year so unless a house is woefully inefficient, it checks out.

labawi 6y ago
> Average US household .. 29kWh/day > houses in the UK .. 3kWh/day Seems believable from what I've heard.
- turbinerneiter 6y ago
  I think in the US it's common to heat and cool badly insulated houses with electricity, whereas in europe almost nobody cools, heat comes from other sources and insulation is taking way more seriously, especially for anything built recently. The best way to reduce your energy bill (whichever source) is to live in the right climate zone I guess.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Electric heat isn't super common, especially in standalone houses, in areas where you need a lot of heat in the US. I don't know the numbers off the top of my head but electricity costs a lot more than gas or oil. You're right about the AC but I still use 20 kWh even with no AC (and no electric heat).
    - turbinerneiter 6y ago
      Thanks for the insight. I vaguely remembered that people run the ac in reverse for heat, but that is probably only in paces that almost need no heating. Do you know why you use that much? Do you heat your water with electricity? Fridge, freezer, tv, WiFi, Desktop PC, charging phones and laptop, ligths.
      - ncallaway 6y ago
        - AC is a very common consumer of large amounts of electricity (depending on the region, many regions will have almost no AC while other regions will have it in every building running almost constantly) - Electrical heat is not the most common form of heating, but it's been growing a lot and is also a big consumer when it is used - Laundry Washer/Dryer are pretty large consumers (mostly the dryer) - Water heaters are often electrical - Electrical ovens and stove ranges are pretty common, which can pull quite a bit depending on how much use they receive - Microwaves pull a bit, but not huge
        ghaff 6y ago
        AC is a big one. Where I live in New England, we usually have a couple spells where I really need to turn on my office window unit for a week or so. Those months can drive my electricity consumption up by 200 kWH or more for the month--and that's just one small window unit run intermittently during the day to cool one small room.
        nicoburns 6y ago
        (electric tumble) dryers are an interesting point. They're getting more common, but most people I know in the UK either don't have one, or have one but don't use it for normal washes (they use a washing line or a clothes horse).
      - ghaff 6y ago
        Not really. My electricity usage is considered normal so I've never really looked into it. Additional freezer, washer & dryer, oven (I have a propane range but many do not), microwave, there's some additional water heating in the dishwasher as well as for drying, TVs, other electronics like printer stereo etc., furnace/water heater are oil but still have pumps etc.
        turbinerneiter 6y ago
        That's fascinating as it's not really that different from myself. I'm alone in a flat tough, I guess you are a family?
    - nicoburns 6y ago
      Do you have any idea what that is going on? Just really inefficient appliances?
      - ghaff 6y ago
        I don't think anything is "going on" given that my consumption is about average for my area. I do have 3 fridges which are all pretty old at this point which is certainly some ongoing load. I also have at least the usual number of electronic devices consuming at least standby loads. Then there are the usual intermittent things like electric dryer, dishwasher, etc.
- benjohnson 6y ago
  The 3kWh figure for UK is just electricity - add 12kWH for heating energy from gas to get a more reasonable number given that people in the UK generally don't live in shacks. https://www.theenergyshop.com/guides/average-gas-and-electricity-usage https://www.theenergyshop.com/guides/average-gas-and-electri...
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Yes, although the 30 kWh US figure doesn't include a lot of gas/oil heat in the North/mountains either. (It does include a lot of AC but average electricity consumption is still a lot higher apparently in the US even taking that into account. I assume bigger houses is one reason.)
- abdullahkhalids 6y ago
  1 KWh/day for Fridge. Lights should do less than 0.5KWh/day. Washing machine is maybe 0.3KWh/day. Maybe, other electronics might add up to 1-2KWh/day. Cooling is not required most of the year. Maybe fans for a couple of months. Heating is separate (EDIT: UK figure), as others have noted. What else are you using electricity on?
  - ncallaway 6y ago
    > Heating is separate, as others have noted. Heating isn't separate for me. For me, cooling isn't required most of the year (probably similar to UK weather), but for many parts of the US cooling is required almost year-round.
  - kragen 6y ago
    Heating, which can easily be 5 kW, 120 kWh/day; many US houses are heated electrically, so it's not always separate. Air conditioning can easily be 3 kW, or 72 kWh/day, although it's usually only on during the daytime, so figure 30 kWh/day; it's common to run a 240 VAC circuit in the US for the air conditioner because the 2.4 kW of a standard 120 VAC 20 A circuit is insufficient. Incandescent lights could easily be 1 kW (which you get to offset against the heating part of the year), which is another 24 kWh/day. A household stove is usually about 4 kW if you're cooking on two burners, but you're probably only cooking about 2 hours a day, so that's 8 kWh/day if you cook at home. (Some people cook with other fuels, but others use electric stoves.) Hot water heaters are also a few hundred watts, I think; an on-demand tankless hot-water heater is on the order of 3 kW, but in the US hot-water tanks are far more common, constantly leaking heat through their fiberglass insulation. In Arizona and New Mexico, where I grew up, common inefficient houses need air conditioning during the day and heating at night much of the year. So it's easy to see how, even if cooling is not required most of the year, you could easily use 50 kWh/day of electrical energy in the kinds of huge houses people have in the US.
    - galangalalgol 6y ago
      I think AC is usually 440v around here. It is the largest consumer.
ghaff 6y ago
Really? Houses in the US draw 10x on average relative to the UK? That seems unlikely. ADDED: I can believe there's some difference because of AC but I basically don't have AC (just one window unit I run a few days a year), have oil heat, and have a somewhat smaller than average house but I still use about 20kWh/day. The delta does seem to be real though.
- kragen 6y ago
  I wonder if your house is smaller than the world average or even the UK average? It probably has less thermal mass than the UK average. What are you spending your 800 watts on?
- maxerickson 6y ago
  My highest months come out to less than 10 kWh per day. This is work from home + running the furnace (blower and pumps) and running a humidifier. Lots of months will be less than 200 KWh total. This is a medium size house in a colder region of the US. Do you have an electric hot water heater? That would probably boost my use a lot.
spockz 6y ago
3kWh seems way too low. We consumed on average 7.3kWh/day. According to our energy supplier this was on the low side for our house type and family size.
rconti 6y ago
No way. 90kWh/month? My Silicon Valley house consumed ~450kWh/month (15kWh/day) (before we bought an EV) which is very much on the low side from what I see here. 1100sqft. No A/C. Rarely run the heat. Every single light in the house is an LED. Gas appliances. 2 people, not home during the day.
- andi999 6y ago
  Your neighbour is stealing power. 15kwh/day means you are permanently using 600 Watts. Do you have a stationary (desktop) computer? Or do you underestimate heating. You can burn through your whole years budget easily in less than two month. What about the oven, I mean do you bake?
  - CyberDildonics 6y ago
    Ever heard of a refrigerators and freezers?
    - PeterisP 6y ago
      A decent refrigerator should consume less than a kWh per day, perhaps 1.5 kWh/day for refrigerator + standalone freezer - this is something that has changed over the last couple decades, at least in the EU there has been a strong push towards more efficient appliances and refrigerators consume much less power than older models.
      - CyberDildonics 6y ago
        This does not make it more likely that someone is stealing their electricity than they have a refrigerator and/or freezer making up the rest of their unspoken for electrical bill.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    He did say gas appliances which I assume would include the oven and might include a dryer. Presumably not the refrigerator though (there are propane refrigerators but you wouldn't normally get one if you have electricity). I probably draw 400-500 watts even if I'm traveling.
andi999 6y ago
3kWh/day so around 1100 kwh/a seems to me on the low side. Two person household in Germany uses 3600kwh/a electricity. Do you have sources?
tzs 6y ago
Every UK source I can find puts it at around 8-10 kWh/day. E.g., https://smarterbusiness.co.uk/blogs/average-gas-electricity-usage-uk/ https://smarterbusiness.co.uk/blogs/average-gas-electricity-... https://www.electriciancourses4u.co.uk/useful-resources/how-much-electricity-does-your-home-use/ https://www.electriciancourses4u.co.uk/useful-resources/how-... https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/how-much-electricity-does-a-home-use.html https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/how-much-elec...

by Tade0 6y ago

40kg translates to 4-9kWh depending on the chemistry, meanwhile houses in the UK draw around 3kWh/day averaged over a year so unless a house is woefully inefficient, it checks out.

labawi 6y ago

> Average US household .. 29kWh/day > houses in the UK .. 3kWh/day Seems believable from what I've heard.

turbinerneiter 6y ago
I think in the US it's common to heat and cool badly insulated houses with electricity, whereas in europe almost nobody cools, heat comes from other sources and insulation is taking way more seriously, especially for anything built recently. The best way to reduce your energy bill (whichever source) is to live in the right climate zone I guess.
- ghaff 6y ago
  Electric heat isn't super common, especially in standalone houses, in areas where you need a lot of heat in the US. I don't know the numbers off the top of my head but electricity costs a lot more than gas or oil. You're right about the AC but I still use 20 kWh even with no AC (and no electric heat).
  - turbinerneiter 6y ago
    Thanks for the insight. I vaguely remembered that people run the ac in reverse for heat, but that is probably only in paces that almost need no heating. Do you know why you use that much? Do you heat your water with electricity? Fridge, freezer, tv, WiFi, Desktop PC, charging phones and laptop, ligths.
    - ncallaway 6y ago
      - AC is a very common consumer of large amounts of electricity (depending on the region, many regions will have almost no AC while other regions will have it in every building running almost constantly) - Electrical heat is not the most common form of heating, but it's been growing a lot and is also a big consumer when it is used - Laundry Washer/Dryer are pretty large consumers (mostly the dryer) - Water heaters are often electrical - Electrical ovens and stove ranges are pretty common, which can pull quite a bit depending on how much use they receive - Microwaves pull a bit, but not huge
      - ghaff 6y ago
        AC is a big one. Where I live in New England, we usually have a couple spells where I really need to turn on my office window unit for a week or so. Those months can drive my electricity consumption up by 200 kWH or more for the month--and that's just one small window unit run intermittently during the day to cool one small room.
      - nicoburns 6y ago
        (electric tumble) dryers are an interesting point. They're getting more common, but most people I know in the UK either don't have one, or have one but don't use it for normal washes (they use a washing line or a clothes horse).
    - ghaff 6y ago
      Not really. My electricity usage is considered normal so I've never really looked into it. Additional freezer, washer & dryer, oven (I have a propane range but many do not), microwave, there's some additional water heating in the dishwasher as well as for drying, TVs, other electronics like printer stereo etc., furnace/water heater are oil but still have pumps etc.
      - turbinerneiter 6y ago
        That's fascinating as it's not really that different from myself. I'm alone in a flat tough, I guess you are a family?
  - nicoburns 6y ago
    Do you have any idea what that is going on? Just really inefficient appliances?
    - ghaff 6y ago
      I don't think anything is "going on" given that my consumption is about average for my area. I do have 3 fridges which are all pretty old at this point which is certainly some ongoing load. I also have at least the usual number of electronic devices consuming at least standby loads. Then there are the usual intermittent things like electric dryer, dishwasher, etc.
benjohnson 6y ago
The 3kWh figure for UK is just electricity - add 12kWH for heating energy from gas to get a more reasonable number given that people in the UK generally don't live in shacks. https://www.theenergyshop.com/guides/average-gas-and-electricity-usage https://www.theenergyshop.com/guides/average-gas-and-electri...
- ghaff 6y ago
  Yes, although the 30 kWh US figure doesn't include a lot of gas/oil heat in the North/mountains either. (It does include a lot of AC but average electricity consumption is still a lot higher apparently in the US even taking that into account. I assume bigger houses is one reason.)
abdullahkhalids 6y ago
1 KWh/day for Fridge. Lights should do less than 0.5KWh/day. Washing machine is maybe 0.3KWh/day. Maybe, other electronics might add up to 1-2KWh/day. Cooling is not required most of the year. Maybe fans for a couple of months. Heating is separate (EDIT: UK figure), as others have noted. What else are you using electricity on?
- ncallaway 6y ago
  > Heating is separate, as others have noted. Heating isn't separate for me. For me, cooling isn't required most of the year (probably similar to UK weather), but for many parts of the US cooling is required almost year-round.
- kragen 6y ago
  Heating, which can easily be 5 kW, 120 kWh/day; many US houses are heated electrically, so it's not always separate. Air conditioning can easily be 3 kW, or 72 kWh/day, although it's usually only on during the daytime, so figure 30 kWh/day; it's common to run a 240 VAC circuit in the US for the air conditioner because the 2.4 kW of a standard 120 VAC 20 A circuit is insufficient. Incandescent lights could easily be 1 kW (which you get to offset against the heating part of the year), which is another 24 kWh/day. A household stove is usually about 4 kW if you're cooking on two burners, but you're probably only cooking about 2 hours a day, so that's 8 kWh/day if you cook at home. (Some people cook with other fuels, but others use electric stoves.) Hot water heaters are also a few hundred watts, I think; an on-demand tankless hot-water heater is on the order of 3 kW, but in the US hot-water tanks are far more common, constantly leaking heat through their fiberglass insulation. In Arizona and New Mexico, where I grew up, common inefficient houses need air conditioning during the day and heating at night much of the year. So it's easy to see how, even if cooling is not required most of the year, you could easily use 50 kWh/day of electrical energy in the kinds of huge houses people have in the US.
  - galangalalgol 6y ago
    I think AC is usually 440v around here. It is the largest consumer.

ghaff 6y ago

Really? Houses in the US draw 10x on average relative to the UK? That seems unlikely. ADDED: I can believe there's some difference because of AC but I basically don't have AC (just one window unit I run a few days a year), have oil heat, and have a somewhat smaller than average house but I still use about 20kWh/day. The delta does seem to be real though.

kragen 6y ago
I wonder if your house is smaller than the world average or even the UK average? It probably has less thermal mass than the UK average. What are you spending your 800 watts on?
maxerickson 6y ago
My highest months come out to less than 10 kWh per day. This is work from home + running the furnace (blower and pumps) and running a humidifier. Lots of months will be less than 200 KWh total. This is a medium size house in a colder region of the US. Do you have an electric hot water heater? That would probably boost my use a lot.

spockz 6y ago

3kWh seems way too low. We consumed on average 7.3kWh/day. According to our energy supplier this was on the low side for our house type and family size.

rconti 6y ago

No way. 90kWh/month? My Silicon Valley house consumed ~450kWh/month (15kWh/day) (before we bought an EV) which is very much on the low side from what I see here. 1100sqft. No A/C. Rarely run the heat. Every single light in the house is an LED. Gas appliances. 2 people, not home during the day.

andi999 6y ago
Your neighbour is stealing power. 15kwh/day means you are permanently using 600 Watts. Do you have a stationary (desktop) computer? Or do you underestimate heating. You can burn through your whole years budget easily in less than two month. What about the oven, I mean do you bake?
- CyberDildonics 6y ago
  Ever heard of a refrigerators and freezers?
  - PeterisP 6y ago
    A decent refrigerator should consume less than a kWh per day, perhaps 1.5 kWh/day for refrigerator + standalone freezer - this is something that has changed over the last couple decades, at least in the EU there has been a strong push towards more efficient appliances and refrigerators consume much less power than older models.
    - CyberDildonics 6y ago
      This does not make it more likely that someone is stealing their electricity than they have a refrigerator and/or freezer making up the rest of their unspoken for electrical bill.
- ghaff 6y ago
  He did say gas appliances which I assume would include the oven and might include a dryer. Presumably not the refrigerator though (there are propane refrigerators but you wouldn't normally get one if you have electricity). I probably draw 400-500 watts even if I'm traveling.

andi999 6y ago

3kWh/day so around 1100 kwh/a seems to me on the low side. Two person household in Germany uses 3600kwh/a electricity. Do you have sources?

tzs 6y ago

Every UK source I can find puts it at around 8-10 kWh/day. E.g., https://smarterbusiness.co.uk/blogs/average-gas-electricity-usage-uk/ https://smarterbusiness.co.uk/blogs/average-gas-electricity-... https://www.electriciancourses4u.co.uk/useful-resources/how-much-electricity-does-your-home-use/ https://www.electriciancourses4u.co.uk/useful-resources/how-... https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/how-much-electricity-does-a-home-use.html https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/how-much-elec...