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I think you're right that this issue should be viewed both as an Amazon problem, and a public infrastructure problem. Frankly, it's insane to me that we don't

I think you're right that this issue should be viewed both as an Amazon problem, and a public infrastructure problem. Frankly, it's insane to me that we don't consider public bathrooms to be an important component of public infrastructure. But that doesn't take away Amazon's role in the process either.

WaltPurvis 6y ago
America Is Not Made for People Who Pee https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/06/opinion/sunday/public-toilets-united-states.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/06/opinion/sunday/public-toi...
fastball 6y ago
I mean, it kinda does take away Amazon's role, no? The way we've built out our cities means that literally anyone who drives around all day is gonna have a bad time when it comes to relieving themselves. This has nothing to do with how Amazon operates their business and everything to do with a dearth of public restrooms.
- eropple 6y ago
  It only takes away Amazon's role if you remove their agency for not scheduling people to such a packed degree where they can't go use a restroom. A humanely run business takes these things into account. And given that we as a society allow corporations like Amazon to exist through the granting of special-rights charters for limited liability etc., we should be expecting that they operate humanely.
- ncallaway 6y ago
  Sure, if Amazon didn’t have any resources to help mitigate the problem, didn’t have control over the schedule pressure they put on drivers, and didn’t tweet dishonestly about the problem then I could see letting them off the hook. But, they’re a massive company with the resources such that they could address this problem. They could also reduce the schedule pressure on driver’s and allow them to take breaks long enough to use a restroom. And they tweeted dishonestly saying it wasn’t a problem. So, I’m not really ready to just let them off the hook. Amazon has agency, and could fix or seriously mitigate this problem if they wanted to. Instead, they chose to ignore it and equivocate about it until it turned into a PR black eye. When I was in high school, I did bread deliveries for a bakery. There weren’t really restrooms I could use when I was on my route in the mornings, but I was told if I ever needed to use the restroom and had no other options I could always return to the bakery and use our restrooms. I never peed in a bottle doing that job. I also never got in trouble for being 20 minutes late for having had to use the restroom.
  - totalZero 6y ago
    I recall the peeing in bottles narrative to have begun with a story three years ago regarding warehouse workers who allegedly didn't have time to go to the bathroom.[0] So when I saw the tweet about whether to "believe" the peeing in bottles thing, I assumed that the PR person was using an internally approved line of defense about that, and was simply too incompetent to realize that the conversation about delivery drivers is similar but not the same thing. It seems pretty obvious to me that some Amazon drivers, like other drivers, are going to pee in bottles from time to time. This doesn't seem like a fate worse than death, IMO, at least not for male drivers. But I do think it's a reason why Amazon shouldn't put cameras in its delivery vehicles. Still, you would think that Amazon could maintain a bathroom depot in its major delivery areas. Maybe even their own gas stations. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/16/17243026/amazon-warehouse-jobs-worker-conditions-bathroom-breaks https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/16/17243026/amazon-warehouse...

WaltPurvis 6y ago

America Is Not Made for People Who Pee https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/06/opinion/sunday/public-toilets-united-states.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/06/opinion/sunday/public-toi...

fastball 6y ago

I mean, it kinda does take away Amazon's role, no? The way we've built out our cities means that literally anyone who drives around all day is gonna have a bad time when it comes to relieving themselves. This has nothing to do with how Amazon operates their business and everything to do with a dearth of public restrooms.

eropple 6y ago
It only takes away Amazon's role if you remove their agency for not scheduling people to such a packed degree where they can't go use a restroom. A humanely run business takes these things into account. And given that we as a society allow corporations like Amazon to exist through the granting of special-rights charters for limited liability etc., we should be expecting that they operate humanely.
ncallaway 6y ago
Sure, if Amazon didn’t have any resources to help mitigate the problem, didn’t have control over the schedule pressure they put on drivers, and didn’t tweet dishonestly about the problem then I could see letting them off the hook. But, they’re a massive company with the resources such that they could address this problem. They could also reduce the schedule pressure on driver’s and allow them to take breaks long enough to use a restroom. And they tweeted dishonestly saying it wasn’t a problem. So, I’m not really ready to just let them off the hook. Amazon has agency, and could fix or seriously mitigate this problem if they wanted to. Instead, they chose to ignore it and equivocate about it until it turned into a PR black eye. When I was in high school, I did bread deliveries for a bakery. There weren’t really restrooms I could use when I was on my route in the mornings, but I was told if I ever needed to use the restroom and had no other options I could always return to the bakery and use our restrooms. I never peed in a bottle doing that job. I also never got in trouble for being 20 minutes late for having had to use the restroom.
- totalZero 6y ago
  I recall the peeing in bottles narrative to have begun with a story three years ago regarding warehouse workers who allegedly didn't have time to go to the bathroom.[0] So when I saw the tweet about whether to "believe" the peeing in bottles thing, I assumed that the PR person was using an internally approved line of defense about that, and was simply too incompetent to realize that the conversation about delivery drivers is similar but not the same thing. It seems pretty obvious to me that some Amazon drivers, like other drivers, are going to pee in bottles from time to time. This doesn't seem like a fate worse than death, IMO, at least not for male drivers. But I do think it's a reason why Amazon shouldn't put cameras in its delivery vehicles. Still, you would think that Amazon could maintain a bathroom depot in its major delivery areas. Maybe even their own gas stations. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/16/17243026/amazon-warehouse-jobs-worker-conditions-bathroom-breaks https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/16/17243026/amazon-warehouse...