6 ms·

I get your frustrations, yet your problem is with proprietary software and proprietary drivers. I’m sure there’s a way for you to go back to using the old driv

I get your frustrations, yet your problem is with proprietary software and proprietary drivers. I’m sure there’s a way for you to go back to using the old drivers if you’re set on using the latest capabilities of your hardware (without it being FOSS). You don’t have to be the guinea pig, let others do it if it’s not your thing (many programmers do seem to enjoy it, and see it as a challenge).

gknoy 6y ago
That sounds a little like telling someone that their problems are that their cows are not spherical. For graphics drivers specifically, having tochoose between FOSS and something that works is very frustrating.
- dmm 6y ago
  The FOSS amd and intel drivers work great and have for years.
  - mcny 6y ago
    I would have agreed with you but sound input broke for me (Lenovo flex 14 with AMD R5 3500U) on fedora with kernel 5.8 and didn’t get fixed until 5.9. That was months of something being broken. How did this happen and more importantly did we learn anything to prevent this from happening in the future? For now fedora is on an old desktop machine with an ancient i3-2100 processor and I just ssh into it.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Some Intel GPUs only got Vulkan support on Windows.
  - notyourday 6y ago
    > The FOSS amd and intel drivers work great and have for years. Intel has a random lock up in the Mesa. It had this lock up for several years. It has not been fixed. I have a 4k laptop with it, it is incredibly frustrating that I cannot use kitty or alacritty on it because of that crash. AMD driver crashes on modern cards every few weeks. If you want to have a "What are you talking about, it just works?" experience, you buy an NVidia card with proprietary drivers, slap X11 on it and you are off to the races. It just works (currently driving 4x 4k monitors). Last crash was about 11 months ago. The crash manifested in a freeze for about 20 seconds, followed by it recovering by itself. OSS graphics drivers are just not as good as people claim.
- kaba0 6y ago
  Fortunately with AMD GPUs on linux you get both, as the proprietary driver simply adds some opencl support if my memory serves well.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Nope, older GPUs just get basic support, while the older proprietary driver, more feature rich, don't work in modern kernels.
    - kaba0 6y ago
      Yeah, unfortunately it is not backported for older GPUs. But it doesn’t make the case of supported hardwares worse.
      - pjmlp 6y ago
        It does, because the hardware support for OpenGL 4.1 got broken due to ideology.
        joana035 6y ago
        Well, it is still open after all, given you are a very experienced guy you should consider rolling the sleeves and sending some patches to fix that, right? Giving back to the community for something you get for _free_ is nice.
        pjmlp 6y ago
        My gratis work is done for things that really matter to fellow humans, like charity, poor people on the street and not so lucky people that need an helping hand to get back into society, refugees that almost faced death running away from oppressive regimes. That is where I can gladly give my skills and money. Fixing code on Internet for free ain't it.
        joana035 6y ago
pjmlp 6y ago
There is no way, because the only way to make it work is to dig out a pre-historic kernel from the same year Asus released 1215B with Linux support. Proprietary software for 1215B, e.g. Windows, is working just fine with Windows 10, even though it was originally released with Windows 7. So we are talking about Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 8.1, and several Windows 10 releases, all supporting the original Windows 7 drivers for Asus 1215B. I have been a Linux guinea pig since Slackware 2.0 came on Linux Unleashed book, eventually one gets tired of the Linux Desktop meme. Linux was anyway just the way I got cheap UNIX clone at home during my degree, professionally I have spent more years using commercial UNIXes. Nowadays any POSIX clone will do the job, or as alternative we stuck the Linux kernel into a VM.
- joana035 6y ago
  Have you tried to install AMD proprietary drivers? Did you installed the firmware for your WiFi card? By the way you complain about Linux seems that you really don't like it and that nobody can convince you te opposite, but I believe that if you manage to learn the basics around it it pay off in the long run :)
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Missed this remark? > There is no way, because the only way to make it work is to dig out a pre-historic kernel from the same year Asus released 1215B with Linux support. My dear, my first UNIX experience was with Xenix back in 1993, I also used DG/UX, Tru64, HP-UX, Aix, Solaris, Slackware, Red-Hat, Yasdril, Mandranke, SuSE, FreeBSD, Ubuntu, Debian, OS, Scientific Linux. Back in 2002 - 2003, I wrote cluster simulation software while at CERN running on Linux, followed by other examples of deployment of Linux based software into production, like Nokia's NetAct cluster monitoring platform. I think I can manage with the basics.
    - joana035 6y ago
      Sorry, I didn't though that would offend you. I just think that those issues are relatively easy to fix and that you can still have the proprietary gpu modules to get OpenGL 4.1 back. For the wifi to work well with the open module you could have installed the firmwares. That's what I mean by basics, I didn't meant to put down your credentials :) Sorry again for my poor writing

gknoy 6y ago

That sounds a little like telling someone that their problems are that their cows are not spherical. For graphics drivers specifically, having tochoose between FOSS and something that works is very frustrating.

dmm 6y ago
The FOSS amd and intel drivers work great and have for years.
- mcny 6y ago
  I would have agreed with you but sound input broke for me (Lenovo flex 14 with AMD R5 3500U) on fedora with kernel 5.8 and didn’t get fixed until 5.9. That was months of something being broken. How did this happen and more importantly did we learn anything to prevent this from happening in the future? For now fedora is on an old desktop machine with an ancient i3-2100 processor and I just ssh into it.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Some Intel GPUs only got Vulkan support on Windows.
- notyourday 6y ago
  > The FOSS amd and intel drivers work great and have for years. Intel has a random lock up in the Mesa. It had this lock up for several years. It has not been fixed. I have a 4k laptop with it, it is incredibly frustrating that I cannot use kitty or alacritty on it because of that crash. AMD driver crashes on modern cards every few weeks. If you want to have a "What are you talking about, it just works?" experience, you buy an NVidia card with proprietary drivers, slap X11 on it and you are off to the races. It just works (currently driving 4x 4k monitors). Last crash was about 11 months ago. The crash manifested in a freeze for about 20 seconds, followed by it recovering by itself. OSS graphics drivers are just not as good as people claim.
kaba0 6y ago
Fortunately with AMD GPUs on linux you get both, as the proprietary driver simply adds some opencl support if my memory serves well.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Nope, older GPUs just get basic support, while the older proprietary driver, more feature rich, don't work in modern kernels.
  - kaba0 6y ago
    Yeah, unfortunately it is not backported for older GPUs. But it doesn’t make the case of supported hardwares worse.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      It does, because the hardware support for OpenGL 4.1 got broken due to ideology.
      - joana035 6y ago
        Well, it is still open after all, given you are a very experienced guy you should consider rolling the sleeves and sending some patches to fix that, right? Giving back to the community for something you get for _free_ is nice.
        pjmlp 6y ago
        My gratis work is done for things that really matter to fellow humans, like charity, poor people on the street and not so lucky people that need an helping hand to get back into society, refugees that almost faced death running away from oppressive regimes. That is where I can gladly give my skills and money. Fixing code on Internet for free ain't it.
        joana035 6y ago

pjmlp 6y ago

There is no way, because the only way to make it work is to dig out a pre-historic kernel from the same year Asus released 1215B with Linux support. Proprietary software for 1215B, e.g. Windows, is working just fine with Windows 10, even though it was originally released with Windows 7. So we are talking about Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 8.1, and several Windows 10 releases, all supporting the original Windows 7 drivers for Asus 1215B. I have been a Linux guinea pig since Slackware 2.0 came on Linux Unleashed book, eventually one gets tired of the Linux Desktop meme. Linux was anyway just the way I got cheap UNIX clone at home during my degree, professionally I have spent more years using commercial UNIXes. Nowadays any POSIX clone will do the job, or as alternative we stuck the Linux kernel into a VM.

joana035 6y ago
Have you tried to install AMD proprietary drivers? Did you installed the firmware for your WiFi card? By the way you complain about Linux seems that you really don't like it and that nobody can convince you te opposite, but I believe that if you manage to learn the basics around it it pay off in the long run :)
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Missed this remark? > There is no way, because the only way to make it work is to dig out a pre-historic kernel from the same year Asus released 1215B with Linux support. My dear, my first UNIX experience was with Xenix back in 1993, I also used DG/UX, Tru64, HP-UX, Aix, Solaris, Slackware, Red-Hat, Yasdril, Mandranke, SuSE, FreeBSD, Ubuntu, Debian, OS, Scientific Linux. Back in 2002 - 2003, I wrote cluster simulation software while at CERN running on Linux, followed by other examples of deployment of Linux based software into production, like Nokia's NetAct cluster monitoring platform. I think I can manage with the basics.
  - joana035 6y ago
    Sorry, I didn't though that would offend you. I just think that those issues are relatively easy to fix and that you can still have the proprietary gpu modules to get OpenGL 4.1 back. For the wifi to work well with the open module you could have installed the firmwares. That's what I mean by basics, I didn't meant to put down your credentials :) Sorry again for my poor writing