5 ms·

I'm worried that this will just breed deeper resentment among a socially fractured lower class that would be stronger were it more unified. I'm white though, I

I'm worried that this will just breed deeper resentment among a socially fractured lower class that would be stronger were it more unified. I'm white though, I know what my thoughts on these issues are worth.

captainredbeard 6y ago
Your views are not weighted by your race, that's silly. Your thoughts are 100% valid and worthy.
- honkdaddy 6y ago
  Here on HN I believe this to be true. But the frighteningly common viewpoint today among progressives today is that white people are not allowed to have a voice when discussing topics of race. This isn't a fringe opinion, there's been bestselling books[1] on the topic. https://www.amazon.ca/Longer-Talking-White-People-About-ebook/dp/B06WWPX2YF https://www.amazon.ca/Longer-Talking-White-People-About-eboo...
  - captainredbeard 6y ago
    Oh, I'm well aware of the popular trend to discredit ideas based on the race of the originator (a disgusting proposition). We must push back.
skyde 6y ago
I 100% agree policy like this are likely to make the poor white people see the poor black people as privileged by the system. While the poor people of color will still feel that they are not privileged because 76% of millionaires are white.
jfengel 6y ago
It's not because you're white. It's because you're not poor, and you're not in Oakland. You have absolutely no facts about the situation, but you're here anyway, "just worried" about hypothetical people you don't know and haven't even gathered statistics on. You've got no idea why they're offering this to poor blacks in Oakland, and you're just gonna take a guess. And you're promptly validated in that by other non-poor non-Oaklanders who tell you -- and I'm quoting here -- that your lack of experience is "100%" equivalent to those who do have experience. That's the problem here: not your whiteness, but the outrage you feel at being excluded from a decision in which you've got no information and no stake. That stems from all of the things at once: your whiteness, your maleness (go ahead, tell me I'm wrong about that), and all the other dimensions along which people get excluded from things and simply never happen to you. And instead of saying, "Tell me more", you tell everybody that your opinion is devalued solely because of the color of your skin, so that all of the other people in this room full of middle-class white men will tell you that it's wrong to exclude you. I know you've long since stopped listening to me, but I'm nonetheless going to make a suggestion: the next time you're "just worried" about something, consider whether you've done anything to assuage that worry. Without that, it looks like you're just trying to inform the Oakland City Council of something that it already knows -- because it's literally the only thing you know about it.
- honkdaddy 6y ago
  So is that where we're at then? People aren't allowed to have opinions on situations they haven't directly experienced themselves? I understand it's cathartic telling off white males for having opinions, but truly I don't think the case you're making here holds any water.
  - jfengel 6y ago
    That's correct. You're going to have to learn what it's like to be told "You don't know what you're talking about, and your guesses are in fact not as good as the expertise of other people". The fact that this is so hard for you to hear is the reason that we're having this discussion. People in the majority are have become accustomed to not just having opinions, but to have their opinions override those of other people because they are the majority. They've gotten used to being told to shut up, and now majorities are starting to learn how that feels. It's not great.
    - djohnston 6y ago
      Please answer all of my questions though.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- djohnston 6y ago
  Why did you say "just worried"? I didn't say "just worried," I said "worried," your quote is trying to frame me as a Karen and it's inaccurate. What about my response made you think I'm "outraged"? "that your lack of experience is "100%" equivalent to those who do have experience." - no one in this thread said this, so I'm curious who you're quoting. All of your quotes are false. You're trying desperately to wedge this into a narrative that just isn't there.

captainredbeard 6y ago

Your views are not weighted by your race, that's silly. Your thoughts are 100% valid and worthy.

honkdaddy 6y ago
Here on HN I believe this to be true. But the frighteningly common viewpoint today among progressives today is that white people are not allowed to have a voice when discussing topics of race. This isn't a fringe opinion, there's been bestselling books[1] on the topic. https://www.amazon.ca/Longer-Talking-White-People-About-ebook/dp/B06WWPX2YF https://www.amazon.ca/Longer-Talking-White-People-About-eboo...
- captainredbeard 6y ago
  Oh, I'm well aware of the popular trend to discredit ideas based on the race of the originator (a disgusting proposition). We must push back.

skyde 6y ago

I 100% agree policy like this are likely to make the poor white people see the poor black people as privileged by the system. While the poor people of color will still feel that they are not privileged because 76% of millionaires are white.

jfengel 6y ago

It's not because you're white. It's because you're not poor, and you're not in Oakland. You have absolutely no facts about the situation, but you're here anyway, "just worried" about hypothetical people you don't know and haven't even gathered statistics on. You've got no idea why they're offering this to poor blacks in Oakland, and you're just gonna take a guess. And you're promptly validated in that by other non-poor non-Oaklanders who tell you -- and I'm quoting here -- that your lack of experience is "100%" equivalent to those who do have experience. That's the problem here: not your whiteness, but the outrage you feel at being excluded from a decision in which you've got no information and no stake. That stems from all of the things at once: your whiteness, your maleness (go ahead, tell me I'm wrong about that), and all the other dimensions along which people get excluded from things and simply never happen to you. And instead of saying, "Tell me more", you tell everybody that your opinion is devalued solely because of the color of your skin, so that all of the other people in this room full of middle-class white men will tell you that it's wrong to exclude you. I know you've long since stopped listening to me, but I'm nonetheless going to make a suggestion: the next time you're "just worried" about something, consider whether you've done anything to assuage that worry. Without that, it looks like you're just trying to inform the Oakland City Council of something that it already knows -- because it's literally the only thing you know about it.

honkdaddy 6y ago
So is that where we're at then? People aren't allowed to have opinions on situations they haven't directly experienced themselves? I understand it's cathartic telling off white males for having opinions, but truly I don't think the case you're making here holds any water.
- jfengel 6y ago
  That's correct. You're going to have to learn what it's like to be told "You don't know what you're talking about, and your guesses are in fact not as good as the expertise of other people". The fact that this is so hard for you to hear is the reason that we're having this discussion. People in the majority are have become accustomed to not just having opinions, but to have their opinions override those of other people because they are the majority. They've gotten used to being told to shut up, and now majorities are starting to learn how that feels. It's not great.
  - djohnston 6y ago
    Please answer all of my questions though.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
djohnston 6y ago
Why did you say "just worried"? I didn't say "just worried," I said "worried," your quote is trying to frame me as a Karen and it's inaccurate. What about my response made you think I'm "outraged"? "that your lack of experience is "100%" equivalent to those who do have experience." - no one in this thread said this, so I'm curious who you're quoting. All of your quotes are false. You're trying desperately to wedge this into a narrative that just isn't there.