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NYT says Penny stocks are filled with fraud. This is a factual claim, but your response is not to say that the NYT has the facts wrong, but instead to imply th

NYT says Penny stocks are filled with fraud. This is a factual claim, but your response is not to say that the NYT has the facts wrong, but instead to imply they shouldn't report on facts and imply they have a secret agenda for doing so.

rcoveson 6y ago
That's not a factual claim, it's a subjective statement. "Some penny stock transactions are fraudulent" is a factual claim, though not a very interesting one. "The SEC estimates that X% of penny stock transactions are fraudulent" is a stronger factual claim.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  The growing frequency and magnitude of fraud in the penny stock market is absolutely a factual claim. It would be better if the article made it explicitly. But it's implicitly there, albeit only anecdotally substantiated. The SEC is chronically underfunded. A compelling anecdote in the press isn't an uncommon way for an investigation to start. In that light, this article is an expression of a hypothesis.
  - rcoveson 6y ago
    > The frequency and magnitude of fraud in the penny stock market is absolutely a factual claim. Yes, that's exactly what I said. However, the article doesn't make any such claim. Or maybe I missed it, because it was "implicit". What frequency or magnitude of fraud was claimed by the article? "A lot" doesn't cut it. That can mean anything to anyone.
- Apocryphon 6y ago
  What's actually factual is the NYT says > But last month, there were 1.9 trillion transactions on O.T.C. markets, an increase of more than 2,000 percent from a year earlier, according to data from the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, a self-regulatory group that oversees brokerage firms. And > A 2017 paper from Thomas Renault, a finance professor at the University Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne, analyzed millions of Twitter messages about low-priced stocks. A surge in tweets about a small stock led to big price increases followed by sudden collapses, he found, saying the pattern was consistent with pump-and-dump schemes. Granted, the rest of the article is mostly quotes from ex-SEC regulators, investors, economists, Jordan Belfort; anecdotes about a few OTC stock scams; and an explanation of what pump and dump schemes are. But this whole discussion is oversimplifying the article, assigning motives where there doesn't seem to be one.
solosoyokaze 6y ago
> Penny Stocks Are Booming, Which Is Good News for Swindlers The editorializing agenda is right there in the title. This isn't news it's propaganda and as usual the NYT lies through omission. Please name one reason the state lotto is ok but investing in penny stocks is not. You don't see any NYT articles about that though.
- Ensorceled 6y ago
  Ummm, actually you do. Editorials and Op Eds as well.
- em-bee 6y ago
  (sarcasm) the government profits from state lotto, it doesn't profit from stock swindlers.
- llacb47 6y ago
  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/03/magazine/money-issue-iowa-lottery-fraud-mystery.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/03/magazine/mone...
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    Notice the difference between the two articles? OP: Penny stocks are rife with fraud and reward swindlers Your article: This one instance of state lotto had fraud. No comment on the lotto in general.
  - raunak 6y ago
    That was a great article - to anyone seeing this comment, I’d recommend reading through it

rcoveson 6y ago

That's not a factual claim, it's a subjective statement. "Some penny stock transactions are fraudulent" is a factual claim, though not a very interesting one. "The SEC estimates that X% of penny stock transactions are fraudulent" is a stronger factual claim.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago
The growing frequency and magnitude of fraud in the penny stock market is absolutely a factual claim. It would be better if the article made it explicitly. But it's implicitly there, albeit only anecdotally substantiated. The SEC is chronically underfunded. A compelling anecdote in the press isn't an uncommon way for an investigation to start. In that light, this article is an expression of a hypothesis.
- rcoveson 6y ago
  > The frequency and magnitude of fraud in the penny stock market is absolutely a factual claim. Yes, that's exactly what I said. However, the article doesn't make any such claim. Or maybe I missed it, because it was "implicit". What frequency or magnitude of fraud was claimed by the article? "A lot" doesn't cut it. That can mean anything to anyone.
Apocryphon 6y ago
What's actually factual is the NYT says > But last month, there were 1.9 trillion transactions on O.T.C. markets, an increase of more than 2,000 percent from a year earlier, according to data from the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, a self-regulatory group that oversees brokerage firms. And > A 2017 paper from Thomas Renault, a finance professor at the University Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne, analyzed millions of Twitter messages about low-priced stocks. A surge in tweets about a small stock led to big price increases followed by sudden collapses, he found, saying the pattern was consistent with pump-and-dump schemes. Granted, the rest of the article is mostly quotes from ex-SEC regulators, investors, economists, Jordan Belfort; anecdotes about a few OTC stock scams; and an explanation of what pump and dump schemes are. But this whole discussion is oversimplifying the article, assigning motives where there doesn't seem to be one.

solosoyokaze 6y ago

> Penny Stocks Are Booming, Which Is Good News for Swindlers The editorializing agenda is right there in the title. This isn't news it's propaganda and as usual the NYT lies through omission. Please name one reason the state lotto is ok but investing in penny stocks is not. You don't see any NYT articles about that though.

Ensorceled 6y ago
Ummm, actually you do. Editorials and Op Eds as well.
em-bee 6y ago
(sarcasm) the government profits from state lotto, it doesn't profit from stock swindlers.
llacb47 6y ago
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/03/magazine/money-issue-iowa-lottery-fraud-mystery.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/03/magazine/mone...
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  Notice the difference between the two articles? OP: Penny stocks are rife with fraud and reward swindlers Your article: This one instance of state lotto had fraud. No comment on the lotto in general.
- raunak 6y ago
  That was a great article - to anyone seeing this comment, I’d recommend reading through it